fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2521 ]

[ SECRET POST #2521 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2521 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

__________________________________________________

02.

__________________________________________________

03.

__________________________________________________

04.

__________________________________________________

05.

__________________________________________________

06.

__________________________________________________

07.

__________________________________________________

08.

__________________________________________________

09.

__________________________________________________

10.

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 029 secrets from Secret Submission Post #360.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

06. http://i.imgur.com/vKdYiLv.jpg

I agree. Tbh everyone who I see complaining about the Disney characters not being good role models or whatever are just lookin for things to complain about. Cinderella remained a kind and sweet person in a situation that would turn most people bitter and angry and she's just as good a princess as Mulan for what circumstances did to her.

Everyone picks on Disney female characters because they're the only company that makes a decent number female (protagonist) characters, so they're the only ones to pick on.

This is interesting. I was *very* surprised when I first heard that Ariel was considered a bad role model. I said but look at what her strength is, look at what Eric loves her for and Ursula takes away--her *voice.* Isn't that symbolically feminist--that her voice is the best thing about her? The villain specifically says "the men up there don't like a lot of blather...yes, on land it's much preferred/for ladies not to say a word"--come on, that is pretty explicitly anti-feminist! I think The Little Mermaid gets a bad rap.

(Now if you want to go after the original tale which is SAD AS FUCK, have at it.)

I agree, OP!

If you're looking at Disney princesses that don't have much agency, Snow White or Aurora are much better picks. Aurora more so than Snow White, tbh.

The fun thing about Sleeping Beauty is that the prince in it isn't much better. The whole story is just a big battle between the good fairies and Maleficent, and the prince and princess are just chess pieces.

Yup! Philip is useless - watch the show, and see the good fairies doing all the work for him.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-11-28 17:28 (UTC) - Expand

Aw, I think Snow White is okay. She took refuge with the dwarfs and in return she cooked and cleaned for them. She wasn't really thinking about her prince then. Even she did the best with horrible circumstances handed to her.

Sleeping Beauty doesn't really focus on the princess though. Like the anon above me said, it's really just a fairy battle with the royalty mixed up in there somewhere.

This - though, tbf, they* did have to change a lot to make it "safe" for little kids, and that meant cutting out the part where Sleeping Beauty did do stuff.

*from the Grimm version, so...probably the Victorians as opposed to Disney itself.

I think Snow White is okay, but I think she might be the most criticizable princess. She was, after all, the only one who was actually in dire need of rescue on multiple occasions (and one of those she was actually conscious for), and she...well, she was supposed to come across as so kind and naive that she couldn't help but trust that old hag, but now it comes across as a little stupid.

Not to say I have a problem with Snow White. I don't--just that there are criticisms to be made.

I think Aurora is a bit more defensible because, well...she doesn't do anything. Good or bad. She never realizes she's in danger (for obvious reasons that weren't because she was dumb), and otherwise her life is spent being a peasant and picking berries and shit. She longs for a companion because she's lonely (evidently the fairies never let her leave the forest). She's not in a bad situation like Snow White or Cinderella besides that.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-11-28 20:04 (UTC) - Expand

The thing about Sleeping Beauty is that Aurora is really just a pawn in the story--NOT the main character. It's really about the fairies.

THAT said, she doesn't get enough credit. She learns in one day that her entire life is a lie and she's getting ripped apart from it to a lifestyle she's never known. And all she does is cry to herself once she gets to the castle. That had to be super hard on her.

Yeah, I've always had trouble getting into Sleeping Beauty because "girl kept in the dark for her own good" is my least favorite trope, but I haate when people act like the problem was Aurora being "weak". She had every right to cry. Not every female character is going to respond to a situation like that by telling people off, and that's okay. Pitting the Disney princesses rather than the narratives against each other isn't helping anything.

/always ready to complain about this sorry

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-11-28 17:33 (UTC) - Expand

I completely agree! People act like she could just run away to a shelter or something. Or that she should stand up to her oppressors. I always got the impression that she wanted to get along with her family despite their ill treatment of her. That's not a horrible thing to want. Yes, her situation was terrible, but she was trying to make the best with what she had. She kept dreaming that it would get better some day either by improving her situation or by getting out of it. Her ultimate goal wasn't to find a prince to save her. It was a coincidence that it happened. Doesn't make her a bad role model because she took advantage of the opportunities presented to her.

I always got the impression that she wanted to get along with her family despite their ill treatment of her.

And this is why I'm so glad they gave Anastasia a conscience (and repentant of her treatment of Cinderella) in the sequels instead of just being a one-dimensional villain, imho.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-11-28 01:21 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-11-28 17:39 (UTC) - Expand

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't she not want to abandon her father?

(no subject)

poisonenvy - 2013-11-28 02:52 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-11-28 03:51 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-11-28 17:34 (UTC) - Expand

I like your thoughts on this. :)

I always loved Cinderella for that sarcastic little joke she tells the mice: "perhaps I should interrupt the MUSIC lesson" while the sounds of her sisters' awful singing/flute playing is floating down the stairs.

yes cinderella was a sass master

This x1000000

I think people mix up situation with character. It might be annoying to have movies where the heroine was written as being in a situation like that, but given the situation she was in from an in-universe context, she reacted to it completely admirably.

I had this discussion before on some youtube video where a girl was complaining about princesses and I said the same thing. I think in our way of thinking now we stress be brash, stand-offish, and physically strong as the only traits that makes a character "strong" when we really shouldn't have a single set of traits that makes a character a good one. We're all ranges of emotions and states of beings and just because Cinderella isn't Ellen Ripley doesn't mean she doesn't deserve to exist.

To add to the person above about Phillipe from Sleeping Beauty, he was the first prince to actually do any thing and the only one with a name for a while. It wasn't until the Renaissance that they really started to give both prince and princess a real role.

People actually say that? Where? I've heard that about sleeping beauty, but never Cinderella.

Every time I've heard references to Cinderella irl - which is, oddly, mostly from men and sportsmen at that - they use the term to mean someone in a hard or lowly situation who's pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps to become famous or great. The term is used that way in football every time it comes up o_O Which is... exactly the opposite of what you're suggesting people think of Cinderella, here.

When some talks about a Cinderella Story, they're saying someone who was poor and is now rich. A lot of the time it means they helped themselves, but that's just because that's more likely than a prince coming to marry you.

But in fandom, the original three princesses are often criticized, and on the internet, they're criticized all to hell by people who haven't seen Disney movies since their childhood and only vaguely remember pieces from it.

Huh, you're totally right, anon! She wasn't looking for a prince (even though she did find him). And she had to be incredibly strong and resilient to live through what she did.

I think it can be argued though that the way that story is told overall still teaches a not-so-great lesson, especially if you're young. Maybe it's because in the end it's the prince who secures her freedom and happy ending, and not anything she did. (Not to say I don't love that move because I do. It's from my childhood.)

I've developed a soft spot for Cinderella ever since a read a statement by Walt where he said she was his story of just working relentlessly everyday and then finally catching a break. The fairy godmother was her lucky break. And you can talk about doing things for yourself all you want but in the real world sometimes you do just need to get lucky.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only