[ SECRET POST #2526 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2526 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.
[Doctor Who]


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03.
[Disney]


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04.
[TMNT]


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05.
[Thor: The Dark World]


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06.
[As Told By Ginger]


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07.
[daughter, purity ring]


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08.
[Sleepy Hollow]


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09.
[Attack on Titan/Shingeki No Kyojin]


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10.
[The Producers]











Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 053 secrets from Secret Submission Post #361.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fauxkaren]

RTD wasn't just a better writer for his female characters. He was a better writer. Full stop.

But that's not the point.

The point is that yes, Rose had those characteristics, but she ALSO had development and relationships outside of her relationship to the Doctor.

Moffat's companions don't.

[(Anonymous)]

Call me when RTD writes something as good as Sherlock (that IMO isn't as good as most people say, but it's still better than crap like Torchwoord or Queer as Folk).

[fauxkaren]

Sure. It's called Torchwood: Children of Earth.

Ur welcome.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, no. That was a trainwreck. The first two seasons were bizarre and weird and sometimes too campy, but they were lovely. Children of Earth was forced drama, soulless. 'Let's ruin everything that makes Torchwood an enjoyable show'.

[fauxkaren]

I disagree.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

"as good as Sherlock"? You must be joking. A Study in Pink was the best that show is ever going to be, and why? Because Moffat (and Gatiss) crafted the modern story around an existing, established, fully-fleshed out PLOT. (Which is the one thing Moffat cannot write well, neither for love nor money.) The further they got from ACD's well-crafted plots, the harder Sherlock sucked. Now it's been reduced to a very bad pastiche of an already-bad pastiche, and ACD/Canon reliance has been diminished to outright reversals/thumbing of the nose, or, at best, references to the story titles.

[(Anonymous)]

This. A Study in Pink was great, but the show went downhill from there. Plus, they still managed to somehow build a plothole into the pre-built story (seriously, Sherlock is supposed to be good at this, so why does it take him so long to figure out the murderer's a cabbie?)

[(Anonymous)]

This. I figured out that the murderer must be a cabbie as soon as they revealed that all three victims 1) didn't own cars, and 2) were found in parts of London they didn't normally go to. Some genius!

[(Anonymous)]

Call me when RTD writes something as good as Sherlock
Yeah, you totally lost me there. Fandom loves the show, but agreeing with the anon above, A Study in Pink was really the only good episode. That show really is rather awful despite people falling for the arrogant asshole male genius and the man they can ship him with.

[(Anonymous)]

"As good as Sherlock"? Oh, anon... /facepalm

I'm not an RTD lover, but if you want to defend Moffat's ability as a writer, you need to do better than that. People who point to Sherlock as an example of excellent writing only bolster the accusation that Sherlock fans can't look beyond Cumberbatch's prettiness to see the reality of things. Sherlock is frequently a mess of patched-together plot lines and credibility-straining devices and I say this as a fan of the show.

[(Anonymous)]

I doubt that all the male tv critics on his forties that are always praising Sherlock watch it for Cumberbatch'attractiveness. The writing isn't excellent, but is good enough to be enjoyable.

[(Anonymous)]

*looks at Torchwood: Miracle Day*

*looks at 'better writer' statement*

....

Yeah, no. I'll take Impossible Girls and moving Angels and River Song imprinting on the Doctor as a baby over murdering multiple women so dudes can angst and be racist assholes while a child molester and murderer is lauded as jesus and we're supposed to fucking care about how wonderful he is.

[feotakahari]

If I stole this and changed some details to argue that Stephenie Meyer is preferable to Piers Anthony, which fandom would murder me first?

[4thofeleven]

Piers Anthony still has fans?

[feotakahari]

I tried reading one of his recent books. At the back of the book, he listed the names of everyone who sent in a joke, matched to the jokes they sent in. This included almost every joke in the book that wasn't a raunchy sex joke. Given how little effort Anthony put into plot and character, I think the fans are essentially writing the books now.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes this.

[(Anonymous)]

murdering multiple women so dudes can angst and be racist assholes while a child molester and murderer is lauded as jesus and we're supposed to fucking care about how wonderful he is.

Would you mind elaborating on this? Especially the child molester bit. I've not seen Miracle Day, but after reading this I'm not sure I want to.

[(Anonymous)]

Actually, I always thought Rose's life revolved around the Doctor to a degree that none of the other companions have ever reached. River was worse admittedly, but I don't consider River a companion exactly. Amy was able to fall in love with someone else and marry him and eventually choose a life with him away from the Doctor. In fact, while Amy's and the Doctor's lives were entwined for a very long time, she repeatedly chose Rory over the Doctor when it came to a choice. Rose never did that. From the time we met her to the last time we saw her in The End of Time, her life revolved completely around the doctor. What other significant relationships did she have? There was Pete and her mother, but nearly all of her interactions with them had to do with her relationship with the Doctor and how it was always the highest priority in her life to the exclusion of everything and everyone else.

I always thought Rose had serious tunnel vision when it came to the Doctor. When he was around she couldn't see anything else. And Martha was just about as bad. She was smart enough to realize that he wasn't going to ever return her feelings and to walk away at the end, but she was no less starry-eyed about the Doctor than Rose was. And even Donna (though I love her) was equally obsessed with the Doctor. She wanted to travel with him forever. The only difference in her case is that it wasn't romantic. So no, I'm really not seeing how RTD's companions are better than Moffatt's. His companions are as much defined by their relationships with the Doctor as Moffatt's are, if not more so.

[fauxkaren]

For RTD's companions, their relationship with the Doctor was a catalyst and obviously they were influenced by him, but their STORIES were always about themselves.

YES. EVEN ROSE.

I wrote a huge post about it a few years ago (so... pre-s7) over on lj if you care to read it: http://fauxkaren.livejournal.com/223539.html

I'm far too lazy to type of the same old arguments again.

[(Anonymous)]

... you are applauding Amy for falling for someone who returned her feelings, but are pointing fingers at Rose for the same thing. what

why should have Rose "chosen a life away from the doctor" when the life with him was what she wanted (and so did he). like... does not compute. Amy was able to fall in love with Rory, Rose was able to fall in love with the Doctor, there is nothing wrong with that.

[(Anonymous)]

No I'm saying Amy had a life and relationships outside of the Doctor (and so does Clara for that matter) whereas Rose's entire life and motivations revolved around him. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone - I'm just disagreeing with Fauxkaren's premise that RTD's companions have lives and relationships outside the Doctor and Moffatt's don't. And yes I did read her LJ essay, and all I can say we're obviously looking at this show through two very different lenses.

[(Anonymous)]

Thank you for pointing this out, despite the inevitable flack you'll get about it. RTD was tedious about the "BUT BUT BUT TRUE LOVE!" excuse for why Rose's life revolves around the Doctor and the majority of fandom is okay with it... but not okay when other companions show signs of doing the same because it's anti-feminist. I don't get it, either.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah. I'm not saying there isn't anything to criticize about Amy and Clara, but I don't get the argument that Rose was written so much better.