fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2538 ]

[ SECRET POST #2538 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2538 ⌋

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How are people outside the US supposed to relate to this view? Like, Swedish and Polish immigrants are treated completely different even though they're both "white".

Most discussion about race in fandom (representation etc) leaves me ???, so please educate me.

It's very simple, actually. Race is not a real thing. It is a social construct that is can change depending on what part of the world you're in. As a result, you can go to one country and people will look at you and say "this is the Whitest Whitey McWhitepants I have ever seen", but elsewhere "this person is not white at all, they are".

But US people don't like to acknowledge this and would rather pretend that the way race (which is a culturally-defined social construct) works in the US is the way it works everywhere.

That's all there is to it.

(same anon)

Please ignore the "they are" after the "this person is not white at all". I typo'd.

(same anon again)

For further reading, here's an article that talks about this issue in more detail:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/199511/mixed-blood

OP

Thanks.

I feel the same way. Once somebody told me that Russians were POCs, and, while I respect them and their opinion, I was all like... wut. I don't think this term makes any sense anymore. I prefer to use the "dark/light/yellow/red skin" distinction.

Yes, this exactly. The fact is that while I don't deny that maybe the USAmerican definition of race works for them, their insistence on applying it to the rest of the world willy-nilly without actually checking applicability annoys me a lot.
Then again, there are many severely USAmerican-centric areas of the internet, what else is new.

I've been thinking of this a bit actually. I classify people after where they are from, a person from South Africa is South African no matter which skin color they have, so is a Swede or an American, that is also how it is classified in my country, which isn't always positive, but that is how it is done.

So for example the newspapers will say "South African (25) shot and killed by Swede." even if both of them have Norwegian passports and are by all intents and purposes Norwegian.

The issue arises because anyone who is not white* and Norwegian will always be classified with their country of origin, no matter how many generations they have been here, with not that many exceptions*, some of it is based in skin colour, but also country of origin. The Baltic states and Russia is not looked at as good places to be from, Western Europe for the most part is, but not all countries.

And also yes, Norwegians are also just plain old racist... Not saying we are not, just pointing out that we don't classify people the same way as it is done in America (and other parts of the world too I would imagine). We do use black/white/asian too, but differently I think.

*again the level of whiteness is debatable, an adopted child is Norwegian no matter where it is from, not that the person will not experience racism if he or she is not white, but to a lesser degree when people get to know you are adopted.
*Third generation Dane will be considered Norwegian, third generation Latvian will most probably not.

~~I might have posted this in the wrong spot? Dunno and too tired to figure it out, at least it is in the correct thread...~~

Edited 2013-12-15 00:55 (UTC)

Swedish and Polish can both pass as white, and therefore it is possible for them to gain all the advantages offered to white people over POC.

Uh, not all Swedish and Polish people have white skin. Plenty of Swedes have Middle Eastern, African, South American or Asian ancestry.

White is just a descriptor and has nothing to do with nationality. So you can be a Swede who is white, and you can be a Swede who is not white.

Exactly.

But ethnic Swedes, on the whole, would be considered white.

Blah blah blah ethnicity doesn't exist, I'm completely colorblind, whatever. Let's not pretend like we didn't know what OP meant.

You seem to be responding to something I never said.

Re: Race: You're either white or POC?

dancing_clown - 2013-12-15 05:59 (UTC) - Expand

If they are in the right place. Otherwise, no. It doesn't work like that. In many places in the world, Swedes are viewed differently than Polish. Or as an English friend told me, "The Polish are the Mexicans of Europe. Doing the jobs no one wants and getting the blame when things go tits up." Swedes, on the other hand, are viewed more positively.

Not in Europe they aren't... Also not all Swedes are white, most Polish people are, but not all...

~~also they are viewed and treated differently in Europe~~

Because tumblr is full of sjws who want to live out a fantasy where they are the righteous knight who takes down the evil dragon warlord king (white people). It's funny because the majority of them ARE white.

That and they want to be popular. And if they can't be popular in real life then they can at least be popular online. So spew the most ridiculous garbage in the hopes of getting likes and reblogs.

I think it's a very American way of discussing race issues and doesn't work outside of that cultural context. It doesn't always work within that cultural context, but I've mostly seen it used to discuss representation and not outside of that context.

This topic is so old. Evil Americans are oppressing your culture's unique racism, we get it, bye.

lol nice try. The stupid part is that using the term POC is basically like saying "well there are conventionally white folks and then there are THESE OTHER PEOPLE idgaf what colour they actually are".

I always thought POC referred to anyone with dark skin, because classifying most Asians under that does not make sense, quite a few of them are whiter than me (and I am a pretty damn white Scandinavian), so why would they be called Person of Colour?

~~yes I am aware there are more issues, but that is the one that trips me up when I see POC mentioned~~

dmw who's too lazy to log in

See, that's precisely my issue with the term. Everybody uses it differently and ultimately, it just has no meaning. And it is pretty stupid.
(tbqf I'm unsure if Asians are commonly classified as POC. Maybe not.)

Re: Race: You're either white or POC?

making_excuses - 2013-12-15 01:30 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Race: You're either white or POC?

dreemyweird - 2013-12-15 10:52 (UTC) - Expand

POC is sticking all the "coloured" people in one box and labelling all white people as evil which is offensive to both sides.

Not to mention the bullshit of "White people are never oppressed" - Tell that to the Irish/Eastern Europeans. I've experienced it myself. I was refused employment for my nationality and my religion and yes, I am white, in a white majority country.

To SJW's Eastern Europe and the Troubles in Ireland are 'white tears' just because "oh it didn't happen on my doorstep, I can't be arsed researching it,"

Race is not a real thing. It is a social construct that is can change depending on what part of the world you're in.

Basically, this. Much of the U.S. is very focused on physical color over nationality, other places are focused on nationality over color, still others are focused on ethnicity over nationality or color, and some find a way to hate people for all of the fucking above. The rest of the world is not the U.S. and vice versa, though it has to be said that we export a lot more of our media to the rest of the world than we import and package it with all our unique prejudices, and that can influence things quite a bit.

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