fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2552 ]

[ SECRET POST #2552 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2552 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

__________________________________________________

02.

__________________________________________________

03.

__________________________________________________

04.

__________________________________________________

05.

__________________________________________________

06.

__________________________________________________

07.

__________________________________________________

08.

__________________________________________________

09.

__________________________________________________

10.

__________________________________________________

11.

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 077 secrets from Secret Submission Post #364.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I think if it was, OP wouldn't have started with Andrea Dworkin on day one (although I admire her in some ways, she's the most controversial feminist, period) and gone to the Nazi well on day two.

1. I like and respect Dworkin and think any good discussion on feminism should start with her.
2. I wasn't planning on attacking playboy today, I just thought it was a good quote that I quite agree with.
3. Who would you like to see tomorrow then? Is there any feminist you do want to see discussed, or will every woman I bring up just be me trolling? because it sure sounds like your problem is with any feminist topic.

Uh. You like and respect a woman who says this? Seduction is often difficult to distinguish from rape. In seduction, the rapist often bothers to buy a bottle of wine.

Wow.

Yeah, all kinds of no to that. Seduction is often hard to distinguish from coercion, sure.

Why not bring up modern-day feminists? Or pick something that isn't so hardline -- because the quote choices you've been presenting so far are deliberately inflammatory and divisive.

Dworkin may have been influential on modern-day feminism but I think feminism as a movement has left her behind.

Could you give me a specific name? To be honest, when people turn up tomorrow to call me a troll, I'd like to be able to push some of the blame off on to you. =)

I wouldn't say I've been deliberately inflammatory. but I have been picking hard line quotes because 1. it should lead to discussion 2. these opinions are still valid in my eyes, even if modern feminism has tried to leave them behind.

To be honest, the feminist fight is no less a war today than it was in Dworkin's day, and, in that analogy any army that leaves behind a capable and committed warrior like Dworkin is, in my own opinion, doing something very wrong.

Are you for real? So you really think that women's relationship to porn is equivalent to Jews' relationship to the Holocaust? And then you say you aren't being deliberately inflammatory? I'm not calling you a troll here, but you have got to recognize that what you're doing isn't exactly conducive to your stated goals.

And I can't even begin to address the whole war analogy thing, there's so much wrong with that that to try to start with one part of it leaves me overwhelmed by the others.

No, of course I don't think it's equivalent. I never said anything about the scale of the atrocities being even remotely comparable, and neither did the above quote, people are being far too reactionary on that.

I simply suggest the mechanics of those two scenarios are the same. the outcomes are obviously not comparable ) but the mechanics are the same I.E. The oppressed group supporting the tool used to oppress.

DA

The above quote said nothing about what it's comparing at all, is the point. It didn't mention scale. It also failed to mention 'mechanics' or 'tools of oppression' or any details about what comparison is being made. It literally compared a popular porn magazine to a manual used in the Holocaust. That is what it did, and all it did.

So of course people are going to roll their eyes because there are so many other ways that those two things are not remotely comparable. You used an awfully unclear quote that could be taken a variety of different ways, and turning around and blaming people for not interpreting the awfully unclear quote exactly the way you wanted them to, is silly. Admit it and move on.

No, that does not fly at all. The mechanics aren't even remotely similar. There is zero similarity to the two situations whatsoever. To claim such is colossally ignorant and fucking offensive.

Go ask a Holocaust survivor how they feel about this comparison. Go on, I fucking dare you.

The mechanics are the part that are THE MOST DIFFERENT. You could possibly get away with saying something like, I don't know, the underlying principles of dehumanization are the same -- although the fact that Hugh Hefner never killed six million women would still get you side-eyed -- but the mechanics??? The mechanics have NOTHING in common whatsoever.

1. Random quotes without context rarely start discussion. 2. You *might* be able to make an argument but it would be pretty weak because comparing large scale genocide [along with other things] isn't the same as reading a nudey magazine.

If that "capable and committed warrior" is doing [or in Dworkin's case, has said] things that are hurting them far, far more than helping? Then they're doing *something right* when they leave them behind.

....why do we have to talk about this stuff on a fandomsecrets blog, though?

You don't have to do shit.

I choose to do it here because it's a feminist friendly site (supposedly) that I spend a lot of time on, and it the only site left that I frequent that has enough intelligent members willing to discuss things. Sure we have a whole mess of assholes, but I don't think the feminist/asshole ratio has shifted too far.

FANDOM SECRETS IS NOT YOUR FUCKING SAFE SPACE.

1. S/he's a troll parodying feminism

2. S/he never claimed it was a "safe space"

AYRT

A feminist friendly site? Do you even go here? LOL we are pretty much equal opportunity mocksters of all the self-righteous -ists who show their faces. Because we're here to talk about....Hetalia and JPop and Game of Thrones and Hannibal and whatever else is popular at the moment. In a few weeks it will be wall-to-wall BBC Sherlock secrets probably. It certainly won't be a feminist friendly site after that, if yesterday's threads are anything to go by.

Agreed. F!S really showed its ass in those threads. There is no shortage of gross people here.

I don't think you could have done a much better job of it if you had gone into it trying to get people fired up. And it seems unlikely to me that you'd be unaware that Dworkin is a controversial figure. Therefore it seems likely that, at best, you were trying to stir up controversy and start a fight - not necessarily troll, maybe doing it with the best of intentions, but still, it gives the impression that you're looking for a fight. It seems to me that a better approach, especially at the beginning, would be to look for someone who is relatively uncontroversial and get a general conversation going first - rather than someone who gets everyone's backs up, including a lot of the feminists. Similarly, there's nothing wrong with attacking Playboy or criticizing the objectification of women. It's the Nazi element that's out of place. Maybe you just sincerely wanted to talk about the problems with Playboy and pornography. I don't know. I don't think the quote was a good lead-in to that discussion.

It's possible that I'm being too skeptical and suspicious, but I hope you can understand where I'm coming from. I do respect and admire Dworkin, like I said, but that doesn't mean that every discussion on feminism should start with her - she's a fantastic representative of an extremely specific branch of feminism.

Similarly, there's nothing wrong with attacking Playboy or criticizing the objectification of women. It's the Nazi element that's out of place.

Yup. Most of this thread is people criticizing the Holocaust comparison, not supporting or defending the objectification of women or something.

I'd like you to start giving informative links and opening paragraphs so I can at least hazard a guess as to the particular topic at hand.

Because that's most people's problems with you. You post a quote and assume a proper discussion will happen. They're not topics, just context free quotes that sound ridiculous without any context.

Rad!fem stepping up their game shows they really do care about us. Mostly me of course.

Edit: They didn't quit while ahead, I take this back. 0/10 now.

Edited 2013-12-29 09:41 (UTC)

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #2552 ]

Re: Ugh

Re: Ugh

Re: Ugh

Re: Ugh

Re: Ugh

Re: Ugh

Re: Ugh

Re: Ugh

Re: Ugh

Re: Ugh

Re: Ugh

Re: Ugh

Re: Ugh

Re: Ugh

Re: Ugh

Re: Ugh

Re: Ugh

da

Re: Ugh

Re: Ugh

Re: Ugh

I appreciate it