fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2556 ]

How is it homophobic to want people to not know you are gay? He does not say, "Ewww gay people!"

I can only think of three instances where he says it. The first episode where they are having dinner. He says that to establish to Sherlock he is not looking for a romantic interest.

The second is with Irene where he says it so she knows he is not romantically involved (or wants to be) with Sherlock.

And the third time when he is reading the newspaper. And that was more of a, "Stupid newspapers are implying I am gay and in a relationship with Sherlock." Which, guess what. If someone is straight and wants to pursue relationships with women, a newspaper implying he involved with Sherlock may put a damper on that.

And for all of these, he isn't making a huge SHOUT FROM THE ROOFTOPS protest. He is talking one on one with someone.

Edited 2014-01-02 00:25 (UTC)

I think it's more the way the show keeps making these jokes like gay people existing is oh so hilarious. I don't think anyone would complain about it irl.

That might make the show homophobic but I don't see how it makes the character homophobic.

Yes, that is what I meant.

I don't think it's offensive for anyone in rl to get annoyed if someone kept thinking they were gay and they weren't, it's the way the show makes such a joke out of the very idea that really gets on my nerves.

The way you word the secret puts a lot of emphasis on the character, not the show writers, especially since you mention the fans love for him and that you think Martin Freeman is an asshole.

That's the fault of the writers, not the character.

A somewhat blurry distinction, I know, since the character is controlled by the writers. But here's the rule of thumb I use: imagine that the events of the show were all actually happening IRL, without being controlled and manipulated and made up by a writer. In this scenario, would his behavior be homophobic? If no, then it's not the character that's homophobic, it's the writers who keep writing him into situations where he has to go "I'm not gay," and framing those scenes as jokes or digs.

Well that is not, *in any way*, what you said. You pretty much flat out said a particular character is homophobic if they are straight and say so when questioned.

But you backpedal now no-one agrees with you.

Slashers. Reality check. Antithetical.

Re: op

intrigueing - 2014-01-02 14:25 (UTC) - Expand

The joke in the show isn't the idea that gay people exist or that they are mistaken for being gay and that's just so funnay because lol gay people.
The joke is that two guys moving in together are assumed to be a gay couple and everyone around them is so damn focused on not being homophobic, of being accepting and open to it in a "it's okay to be gay, you don't have to deny it" way that they overlook the fact that the guys are not actually gay.

Re: op

(Anonymous) - 2014-01-02 13:41 (UTC) - Expand

It's not. But the way he gets so defensive is. He acts like he's offended that someone thought he was gay. He never just says "oh, no, we're not a couple" in a neutral tone. It's "I'm not his date" in an annoyed tone. It's not like there was any woman he might want to date around to get the wrong idea in that scene. Why so defensive? He could have just said "I'm not his date" without sounding so miffed that someone could dare mistake him for gay.

Then with Mrs Hudson asking if they'll need two bedrooms. He could have just politely said 'yes thanks we'll need two" but instead there's an annoyed-sounding "well of COURSE we'll be needing two" - why the "of course?" It's a reasonable question. There's no need for an 'of course.' The 'of course' makes it sound like he is offended by the mistake.

What reason could he have to be annoyed in either of those scenes? I agree that later with Irene and with the paper he's got a right to be pissed because it's happened so many times and because could impact his ability to get a date, but in the first two in A Study In Pink? I can't think of any reason for his tone other than that he felt it was offensive to be mistaken for gay. Which is homophobic.

That middle paragraph got me thinking about how to a gay couple that would be a nice question, someone actually acknowledging their relationship and being cool about it. But to a couple straight friends it's apparently annoying. I don't know, that's interesting to me.

When I and a friend, a gay man and a lesbian, very visible, travelled around our state, we didn't have the shit beaten out of us because people assumed that we MUST have been in a relationship because, man and woman together. We were careful to appear together in the most redneck of situations.

Straight is assumed by default. The fact that people are assuming gay in this series, is really not like most of real life, except in limited circumstances. I feel the show is trying to say "gay" is more matter of fact to people than it actually still is, and HAHA look it's straight people mistaken for gay, how modern and PC! Poor straights!

You're really reaching here, OP. If I recall correctly, he doesn't like Sherlock all that much in the first episode. Imagine you're getting dinner with someone you've just met, someone you don't really care for, and someone assumes you're on a date. You might be irritated at the implication that you'd date someone who annoys you than the implication of your sexuality.

If I was with a stranger OR friend and someone was assumed I was in a relationship, I'd be annoyed as well. If the friend/stranger was male or female. Fuck, people get annoyed at smaller things.

You're reaching, OP.

I have a particular fic that people occasionally demand and/or try to shame me into updating right now. Someone tried a similar tactic with regard to a completely separate fic. It was the first time they'd done it and the first time someone'd tried to nag me into updating this other fic. You'd better believe I was just as annoyed at the second person as the first group.

The point is, similarly irritating behavior tends to aggregate. And it's not homophobic for an individual to express a preference - in this case, not for men.

What reason could he have to be annoyed in either of those scenes?

Maybe it's because it's annoying as fuck to have people assume that you're in a relationship with someone when you're not? My oldest friend is a guy, the two of us are like siblings. He's married and has a kid.

Yet because we're a guy and a girl who hang out together sometimes, people seem to think that gives them permission to assume that we're dating or married and it's really fucking irritating.

Perhaps he's simply offended that they think he's attracted to Benedict Cumberbatch.

JACKPOT COMMENT

(Anonymous) - 2014-01-02 03:19 (UTC) - Expand

Re: OP

(Anonymous) - 2014-01-02 05:16 (UTC) - Expand

Re: OP

(Anonymous) - 2014-01-02 07:03 (UTC) - Expand

Re: OP

(Anonymous) - 2014-01-03 12:19 (UTC) - Expand

It's not. But the way he gets so defensive is. He acts like he's offended that someone thought he was gay. He never just says "oh, no, we're not a couple" in a neutral tone. It's "I'm not his date" in an annoyed tone. It's not like there was any woman he might want to date around to get the wrong idea in that scene. Why so defensive? He could have just said "I'm not his date" without sounding so miffed that someone could dare mistake him for gay.

I think he gets defensive when people assume he is with Sherlock. At early points, he doesn't like or even get Sherlock all that much. Don't forget Sherlock is the weirdo, the man nobody really likes. Many people will get defensive if someone sugests they are fucking the person noone wants to be with.

Listen, my former classmates used to insinuate that my bff and I were together just because we were two single girls with no boyfriends who spent every minute in class together and because we were VERY affectionate with each other.

After the 100th time of people asking us: "Do you guys have boyfriends, or are you...?" we were both annoyed. We weren't offended by the assumption that we might be gay, we were exasperated by the stupid thought that a girl who is not in a relationship and hasn't been for almost all her teenage years MUST be interested in the same sex, otherwise she would have jumped on a dick already.

If you get a wrong assumption thrown at you over and over again, of course you'll eventually be annoyed/offended. It doesn't have anything to do with homophobia, just with being fed up with people.

What reason could he have to be annoyed in either of those scenes?

Because it's annoying when someone insists they know what your relationship is to another person better than you do.

Do you think it's homophobic of me to be annoyed when people assume that my mother and I are a lesbian couple? (Ooooh, you only need one hotel room, nudge nudge wink wink) I'm bi, just to be clear. And yes, this has happened because even though I'm a grown woman, my family is a very physically affectionate one, but nowadays, where I live, two women holding hands = lesbians.

I mean, I love my Mom, but not that way. Incest is only my kink in fiction, kthanks.

He sounded annoyed when he said "I'm not his date" in the first episode because he's just calmly corrected the assumption that they were on a date and been ignored.

"Anything you want on the house for you and your date.
"We're not on a date."
"This man got me off a murder charge"
(etc)
"I'll go and get a candle for the table, it's more romantic."
"I'm not his date!"

I think as a queer girl that if I were on a date and people assumed we were just friends - even after I said otherwise - I'd get pretty annoyed. It's nothing to do with homophobia. It's to do with people making assumptions. And then ignoring when you correct them.

At Angelo's John doesn't shout or look around like he's scared people will think he's gay. He says he's not Sherlock's date and Angelo blithely keeps treating them like a couple so he says it again, annoyed. He doesn't blow out the candle or jump away from Sherlock like sitting near him might look queer.

And as for Mrs Hudson, if anything I think the assumption just shocks him. It hadn't crossed his mind that she'd leap to that conclusion - how many older ladies who wear pearls and twinsets do you know who would make that assumption? - also, he's only just met Sherlock. I don't know about you, but I don't want people assuming I'm shagging someone who I know nothing about.

Let's be honest. You dislike Martin Freeman and you like feeling righteously offended. Just admit that and move on.

I'm really suprised so many people are jumping on you about this. It's one of the main reasons I couldn't be bothered to keep watching the show. That combined with the queerbaiting is just a really unpleasant combination. There's no need for the show to harp on about it, especially as people don't usually repeatedly mistake people for boyfriends in real life, especially when one of the men is as proudly anti-social as Sherlock.

Edited 2014-01-04 01:09 (UTC)

Re: OP

(Anonymous) - 2014-01-04 08:10 (UTC) - Expand

I'm queer, and I get defensive and annoyed when people insinuate I'm sleeping with my bestie who lives with me, just because we're not, ok.

Why didn't he take his cue from Irene, though? She said she was a lesbian but fell hard for Sherlock- if she can make the switch, so could he?

One) Just because you love someone does not mean you are sexually attracted to them.

Two) If someone like Irene said something like that to you, you would assume she meant sex.

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