fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2591 ]

[ SECRET POST #2591 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2591 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 046 secrets from Secret Submission Post #370.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
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I know. I don't get it. There are so many really offensive tropes in the romance/erotica genres. Its so tiring. If maledom is your thing, great, but so many of the supposed heroes of these books are so creepy and the women so bland and passive its frustrating. I don't get it at all, which is why I stick to the few erotica authors I know usually avoid being offensive.

How dare women have their own taste which is different from yours and not be offended at all.

How dare someone suggest that continuing the grand tradition of writing abusive or creepy behavior as romantic and normal is offensive!

How dare people not be offended at what you find offensive!

How dare people see things by their context rather than froth at the mouth irrationally at every turn.

Do you see slavery as okay in the context of the Bible as well? I'm sure it can be defended under that context pretty well, yeah?

Wah Wah I take everything personal~~~ It's all about me~~~

Apparently, it's kinkshaming to point out that abuse is abuse instead of romance.

Ironically you seem to be missing the point that much of erotica caters to one specific taste (i.e. maledom) and it would furthermore be pretty naive to assume that that (especially combined with tropes that many people find creepy, old stereotypes, and rigid gender roles in relationships) doesn't have maybe something to do with sexism in the genre.

Edited 2014-02-06 23:25 (UTC)

Now you've pointed out that most of mainstream erotica caters to only one single kink, maledom, I don't know why I didn't see it before.

The variety of kink in fanfic is far greater. That explains why I love fanfic yet hate mainstream erotica, because maledom is so not my kink.

So simple yet I never got it before.

I honestly cannot tell if you're being sarcastic.

100% not sarcastic.

For ages I wondered why I found mainstream romance/erotica novels so offputting yet I love shippy fanfiction, and even the crazily romantic ones. I thought romance was just not my thing until I discovered fanfic.

I'm just slow to catch on.

Mainstream romance novels mostly play into a kink I'm just not into. Simple.

ah, ok. I don't think you're slow! Sometimes it takes me ages to catch onto things that are obvious for other people. I just wasn't sure since sarcasm is rife here and my Internet Sarcasm Detector isn't 100% foolproof.

I completely agree with you, btw. Maledom is Really Not My Kink. (If it can be called a kink? I think of it as just a particular power dynamic. but either way.) Fanfiction is absolutely more diverse in terms of both kinks and general relationship dynamics, including within het relationships.

I won't be surprised if the erotica genre really starts changing soon, since I think the biggest reason maledom is so popular is because, let's face it, it fits stereotypical and patriarchal gender roles.* However, lots of women (and men) know that's not what they really want and our views as a society are changing - not to mention the rising popularity of fanfiction and the fact that people are realizing, hey, I'm really not the only one who feels this way/prefers this kink/etc.!

*not to bash on those who do like maledom! But it's not just a standalone kink, it has context and baggage, and there's a reason it's always written. What people are upset with here isn't the fact that maledom gets some people off, it's the fact that it's treated like What All Women Really Want in erotica and in culture in general and that's very limiting, not to mention pretty creepy.

sorry for like a bazillion edits

Edited 2014-02-07 16:51 (UTC)

I think the erotica genre is definitely going to change. More slash aimed at women, for example. I think that was one of those things no one saw coming.

These days I see published erotica authors on their blogs admitting to loving slash fanfic as their 'guilty, finished writing this book treat', even though they themselves still write m/f - or at least currently. The market still has to grow.

I had another think about this subject, and it's not actually maledom I don't like. It's femsub. Just that femsub goes hand in hand with maledom in the mainstream erotica/romance genre.

I don't mind maledom if it's m/m. But I hate femsub even in f/f. So it's the femsub that turns me off.

There's just something too tiresome and cliched about a woman being subjugated, even for sexytimes purposes. It's not a conscious thing. More a reflexive - urrgh!

Also, I'm not bashing anyone who likes maledom/femsub. It's obviously still the most popular kink.

But it is the reason that I didn't go near the romance genre for about 25 years after one brief toe dip in the water. I thought that was all there was.

Instead, I turned to scifi and other genre fiction - which in the UK at least, is full of allegories for non-mainstream sexuality. I'm pretty sure that's not just a co-incidence.

(no subject)

diet_poison - 2014-02-16 18:03 (UTC) - Expand

Also, a friend just loaned me a romance/erotica novel (Wild Card by Lora Leigh) and I thought - oh, these books probably have changed, and I love explicit fanfic, this'll be fun.

But it was horrible. So not my kink. I'll never try to make myself read these type of stories again now I've understood why.

A long time ago I was reading a good book or article all about the "rape is love" thing is rampant in basically all romance novels. It's probably the reason I turned to fandom instead of Harlequin for my romance fix. I think the genre needs a revolution. I think a lot of the self-published and budding erotica authors right now are more aware of this and trying to be different, but there are a lot still falling back on that old formula.

Maybe it's because a lot of people really like the old formula, no matter what you call it?

I'm not sure if you're the same anon who said "How dare women have their own taste which is different from yours and not be offended at all.", but I hope you're not taking my criticism of something as a personal attack against those who enjoy it. It's fine if people like it, and they don't need my approval or permission to keep on liking it. One of the things that comes up in books and articles about writing is that the romance genre is formulaic (in other words, it's a known fact, and the publisher is in fact looking for stories that fit the formula) and saturated with tropes that I personally object to, and I think we're on the verge of a change. Art changes over time, and I think that's interesting and exciting.

Edited 2014-02-06 02:08 (UTC)

I don't like that this supposed change sounds largely forced as some people thought their 'being offended' was universal and silenced those that didn't share their ideas. If it's happening, it's a loss for those who are not offended and happen to enjoy whatever you object to.
But hey, that stuff's popular for a reason, so I'm confident by fandom or by canon there's still be plenty of it in the future too.

Ah. Sorry for the misunderstanding, then. I'm not talking about forcing anything, I just think we're in the middle of a cultural shift. Of course there are still people who like the old things, but I don't think they'll be losing out. If you look at the broad picture of art history, nothing ever goes away. Things just evolve, and sometimes they go back and forth. The way I see it, doing new things and offering fresh perspectives only contributes to art and literature. If this helps to clarify, I'm speaking as someone who is working to be a professional writer, so I study the industry and think about this a lot. And since I love romantic relationships, there's a bit of wishful thinking in here that maybe someday I'll have created something that made an impact on...someone. Even just one person. That probably sounds pretentious but whatever, that's just where I'm coming from. I'm sure in the future, you and other people will still be able to find plenty of things you enjoy.

I'm creating my own works as well, so I will definitely have something I at least will enjoy, but hopefully other people too.... and being a passionate fan, I'll always be promoting what I enjoy by others, also. So hey, no worries there. Best of luck to you.

So, if the main trope in romance was white men stalking and raping black women, it would be okay, because "someone obviously likes it?"

Are we talking actual, violent rape or "rape" where X is just in denial about their feelings about Z? Because romance novels normally feature the latter, not the former. Yeah, I'm perfectly fine with the latter, might be a refreshing change since usually it's white women and black men.

Yeah, like I said it was a long time ago, and I believe it was an article examining the history of romance novels. And that's good to know!

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