[ SECRET POST #2623 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2623 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 064 secrets from Secret Submission Post #375.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

If there's a reason why that's a joke on this board, do tell?

[mautradutor]

Because it is not a real thing. Children are treated differently from adults, rather than because there is institutionalized bias, but because they have not yet fully developed and still requires guidance and guardianship.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Ah. Okay, I think I see where that's coming from. But guidance and guardianship are not the same thing as disgust. And the fact that kids need things from adults doesn't mean that every adult they meet has the right to act like their guardian. (Which is my way of saying that even if the secret was expressing *concern* for kids in explicit game fandoms, rather than disdain, I probably wouldn't like it much.)

[(Anonymous)]

Are you a child/minor yourself?

[mautradutor]

It is true that disgust is something different. But I think it's okay to feel disgust for as long as it does not cause a person to take actions that harm others.

Also, I think it is natural for adults to feel concern for the children, even when those children are not their own. People definitely should not take the liberty to parent other peoples kids (at least not without a license), but I think the need that adults feel to protect them is an instinctive thing. And it makes sense, if you think about it: the potential for the species to survive is greater when the whole community is looking out for the kids.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

I guess the thing is that I don't think keeping kids away from information about sex, especially when they're going looking for it, protects them at all. And, uncomfortable as people may be with the fact that their smut is not intentionally educational, kids need and crave exposure to a reality that hasn't been sanitized and tailored for them. I'm open about this because I feel like having an abridged or theoretical idea of how sex works (or outright, no clue until long after they needed to know) is much worse than seeing unsavory things online.

[(Anonymous)]

Information about sex =/= porn

frank and open discussion about sex and how bodies and relationships work =/= porn

education and safe spaces =/= porn

[(Anonymous)]

All true. But porn is a kind of information about sex, specifically, the kind that isn't trying to be clinical and emotionally distanced. And it's super useful, both in terms of learning what this sex stuff has to do with you, how it affects and impacts you, and in terms of recognizing what's going on with the people around you. You're in a much better position to figure out how someone else is perceiving sex and you and their relationship to you if you have a broader sense of what people actually think about sex than "these are the healthy ways to approach sex." In my experience, life doesn't just send healthy, well-adjusted people your way, and being a child doesn't protect you from that. But having some idea of what you might be dealing with can.

[diet_poison]

this

[mautradutor]

In this case, the desire is to protect them against some of the people who can be found in the sexual sphere. It is true that the threat of predation is not so great as it is made out to be in the media, there is still this danger.

I disagree with the adults who want to keep knowledge about sex from children. But I think you are less likely to find that kind of adult in fandom, especially since, as it's said, most of us were exposed to all of these things as teenagers, ourselves. It's more that we don't want them (or us) to end up in trouble. And the feelings of discomfort is more because as adults we don't (and shouldn't!) view children in a sexual light and less about the idea of them to explore these kinds of things (in my experience, anyway).

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

I guess part of my concern is that when everyone who's concerned with legality shuns children, the few nice adults who hang out in mixed company have a target painted on their back (because talking to a known child is suspicious) and the creepers have the most to gain and the least to lose by being there. Most fans can't even tell if that's happening because they don't want to know if someone is underage. That whole dynamic bothers me.

I think we need to replace the existing laws with more sensible ones, because this is a pretty "and there was harm ... how?" thing to get anyone in trouble for.

As for discomfort, I could be wrong, but my impression is that pedophilia isn't contagious. If being around kids doesn't do it for you, being around kids who are exploring their own sexuality won't either.

[mautradutor]

I'm not sure on the legal aspect, as it is something I have to think more about. But the second point, I don't think most people are scared of turning into pedophiles; I think it's a discomfort along the lines of that one can feel, say, if their parents started talking about how they have sex with each other. We all know that our parents have sex and we all know that there's nothing wrong with it. But having to talk and think about it cause uncomfortable feelings.

And I'm sorry, I'm having trouble thinking of how to describe what I mean. I'm just thinking that the discomfort is normal and is valid as long as the person the feeling has sufficient maturity and self-awareness not to treat anyone badly, or lock them out because of it.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

I think people are entitled to their feelings, as you said, unless they're mistreating someone as a result.

As for ... fandom has done a lot to erode the idea that characters who are older/younger than me are innately unsexy, or that parents are. And while I don't talk to my parents about their sex life, the fact that *still being sexual* at whatever age doesn't phase me has definitely helped me make friends with people who are downright old, and write lovely stories and crack dirty jokes. And tangent, sorry. But I feel like getting over that has been a really good thing for me.

[I need to log out and be responsible for a while, but I will check back later.]

[mautradutor]

Sorry, looks like I came across wrong. The thought of my parents having sex makes me uncomfortable because they are my parents, not because they are old. But that's a digression. Maybe it's not a feeling I can adequately explain. I suppose the important part is that we agree that to only have these kinds of feelings is not so bad.

I have thought more on the legal aspect. Perhaps there may be areas where the law may be modified to be more constructive and realistic, although I think it would be very difficult and take a long time, as I can see there a lot of opposition to these changes. That said, they currently exist in a certain form, and this is something that people have unfortunately to take into account when interacting with children. I can see why the dynamics that talked about bothering you, and there might be things that fandom can do to deal with the situation better. But unless and until the law is different, the adults are going to continue to be wary, simply because they have to be.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Ah. No, it's not bad. And I think I understood you this time.

*rests chin on hand* Fandom is a bigger subset of the population than it's ever been, historically. I think if we reach some sort of consensus that this is unreasonable, then one, it will be a lot harder for politicians to push internet censorship in the name of protecting children, and two, we might find a few people in our ranks who are less susceptible to pressure and want to challenge this directly. That might be overly optimistic of me. But I'd hope not. In the meantime, yes, I get the wariness. I just wish it was expressed as an aversion to threats of lawsuits, rather than an aversion to kids sharing their space.

[mautradutor]

I'm afraid that I do not share your optimism. But I think that maybe you're right, it only is a question of different framing. We can be understanding to young people, while also explains that there have limitations, and that we must go by them.

[(Anonymous)]

Because the idea that adults being allowed to do things that children aren't, and treating children differently to adults, is some kind of prejudice against children (on par with other legitimate sorts of prejudices) is absurd to say the least!

[(Anonymous)]

You're making an -sim out of being a kid. Like sexism, racism, etc. Paired with the phrase "it's gross", it sounds like you actually believe there is institutionalized discrimination against minors.