fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2633 ]

[ SECRET POST #2633 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2633 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 025 secrets from Secret Submission Post #376.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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I'm somewhat disturbed that OP thinks that eating dog-foetuses is WORSE than, you know, slavery.

lol mte

Not to mention it's a dish in some cultures
who's the racist now?

Which cultures actually eat it? And how the crap do you come up with the idea to make that a menu option?

the same way countries like the Philippians eat eggs with a half formed chick inside for a daytime snack

da

chicken eggs, half formed or not, are not really the same as a mammal's fetus. I haven't read GRRM's book, but if it involves cutting open a pregnant dog or something that is way different from eating eggs that a chicken laid.

What cultures eat dog fetuses? honestly curious if you're not exaggerating

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2014-03-20 01:17 (UTC) - Expand

It's still fucking gross.

The same countries where eating still-alive animals is part of their culture?

Uhhh you're still not giving a real example of a culture eating dog fetuses. I think it's safe to say anon doesn't know, and said that original comment without thinking.

And yes, some cultures do cruel things. No, it's not okay. Maybe GRRM was just giving such an example for, err, worldbuilding purposes. or maybe he was laying on the shock factor as usual.

hahaha yep.

poor puppies ;_;

I don't think that was what OP was saying, unless OP is really trying to troll. I think it's a matter of GRRM always laying it on REALLY thick. When he has bad guys, they are SUPER FUCKING BAD GUYS, AND DON'T YOU FORGET IT. Can't I use the Ramsay example? He is soooo bad. he hunts down women with his dogs and rapes them and watches the dogs tear them apart, and he tortures Theon and rapes some more. Evil evil evil.

Maybe real cultures eat dog fetuses or whatever, I don't care. But it strikes me as GRRM again trying to make sure that you are disgusted, using every element of shock that comes to mind.

this is why I haven't been able to make myself read GRRM even though I have had many people tell me how compelling it all is. I read things like this and think, hmm, no.

the thing is, there are plenty of real-life rulers and generals and serial killers and slave owners who were the worst. I don't mind knowing about them and I don't object to their crimes being documented, in fact, they should be documented.

but as a reader of fiction, I don't need all that extra bonus horribleness to be convinced that Character X is Really Bad. I'd rather my made-up horrors were a little more streamlined, I guess. just like you don't need fictional characters who say "um" every other word, you don't need fictional bad guys to be bad in as much detail as is humanly possible.

but that's my preference; someone could probably make a case for the opposite

This. I agree with you 100 percent. There are movies and books about horrible things, genocides and slavery and all, and it should all be there, but i have *zero* interest in reading about someone who is 100 times worse than Hitler, or whatever. Just....no.

well, that settles it. I am definitely not reading Game of Thrones now.

I can handle darkness in my books, but when it's that over the top and edgy... yeah, no. I'm not slogging through pver 500 pages only to be rewarded with scenes of dog rape.

Um there's no dog rape.

Everything involving Ramsay and his antics is merely implied, not written about in scenes or anything. Except this one where he forces his castrated man slave to eat out his 13 year old wife, but that cuts off before it delves into being explicit.

GRRM has an obsession with mentioning shit like "the Dothraki raped these women a billion times, Lollys got raped by 150 men, the Mountain raped so-and-so, Ramsay likes raping for fun" offhand a lot, though.

Having read the Wild Cards series with George RR Martin's character in mind, seconded. He has some kind of a rape-is-the-most-horrible-thing-I-must-write-about-it-20-times thing going on.

That's basically how I read the secret too. I really hate when an author just keeps adding extra levels of EVIL to the evil pie just to let you know that yes, this character is EVIL. We don't need no nuance! EVIL. (One of my favorite examples of this is a book I never finished that involved the lead female character falling in love with an engaged man. I held out hope that maybe the fiancee would be a good person so the male character could be understandably torn between the two women...and then they introduced the fiancee by not only having her think about how she only liked him for his fortune, but doing so while at a eugenics conference. Because apparently the author thought so little of their readers they had to hit us over the head with how totally evil and awful and terrible this character is.)

Not gonna lie dude, I think Ramsey's a combination of two factors:

1. The kind of characters GRRM likes to write about. Yeah, you got your Ned Starks, but most of the characters are meant to be a lot more grey than that. They took Jaime Lannister and made him into a hero. They took Theon and made him sympathetic. This is a series in which people can do horrible things and still come back from that. Very, very few characters are supposed to be COMPLETELY EVIL....but that being the case, when they are, they gotta be REALLY evil. I'm comfortable with that, honestly, because the truly evil are rare.

and 2. The fact that Stark loyalists have been calling for Theon's head for yeeeears. Death isn't even good enough, they would say (if you'd been to westeros.org back in the day you would know this to be true), he's got to suffer and suffer hard. And even if you weren't a forum-goer or a fan who got to talk to him and tell him this in person, he knew a lot of people were still pissed. Theon's a character who, in my opinion, a loooottt of people never really got. His chapters in Clash of Kings DO paint a sympathetic picture but honestly not a lot of readers really seemed to catch that. I've always thought this and honestly I feel George has got to agree, otherwise he wouldn't have done what he did with him in Dance with Dragons. When we finally see the kid again for the first time in years, he's a shell of a guy. He's a wreck; and we get to find that out in horrifying detail. And because GRRM is kind of a troll, I can't help reading an element of "THIS IS WHAT YOU WANTED, RIGHT? HUH? HUH?!!!" through the Ramsey scenes. To make the reader go "NO, we hated him, but we didn't want THIS" was like his first step towards getting people to care about Theon (again).

I didn't get the impression OP was saying it was *worse*, so much as drawing a distinction between real-life-but-horrible evil, and fiendish-caricature-of-villainy evil. But idk, I don't read the series or watch the show.

I interpreted it as OP saying eating unborn puppies is more of a audience-hatred-button-pusher than slavery. Like being sure to show the villain kicking the dog, only more so. Torture and kill fictional humans, whatever, seen it before. But animal cruelty!

...that's what they did in the show? because I do not remember that happening in the book. there was the part about raising a puppy and strangling it but not eating fetuses

Uh, puppy eating is in the book, not in the show...

Backing up dietpoison on this. Read the books; puppy-eating is not in the books.

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