[ SECRET POST #2637 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2637 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.


__________________________________________________



08.


__________________________________________________



09.


__________________________________________________



10.


__________________________________________________



11.


__________________________________________________



12.










Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 070 secrets from Secret Submission Post #377.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

It may be an unconscious thing, but that doesn't make it right. People participating in fandom, especially those who are BNFs, should be aware that the things they are putting out there are being looked at/read/admired by other people. Race IS an important issue, even if you (indefinite pronoun) live in the whitest of all places. While ignoring that and letting yourself focus on just white people may work in your offline day to day life, it's not acceptable behavior in the online world and you are acting in the role of a content creator.

That's not to say people should force characters of color into a particular setting or what have you that wouldn't have variance (which is shitty but does happen), but that they should make the effort to see outside of themselves and that they're affecting other people by choosing to not include them. To have an awareness that those who have a different skin color than white are severely marginalized and by excluding characters of color from all of their works they are actively negatively affecting other people.

With the way the world and internet are right now, race is a topic in every fandom no matter how small. Unless they live under a rock entirely or they're new to all this, it's doubtful someone will have no idea.

Internalized, unconscious racism is still racism, and it's not okay.

(Also, this is the Internet and not the US/Canada/UK/any other country or similar endeavor. It certainly is NOT Small (or Mid) Town America, where you can find places with few/no non-white folks. In fact, I'd go on to say that the Internet is everywhere BUT where you're living, unless you live in a very large city. It is diverse and has people from every corner of the world, as does fandom. Saying "But where I (indefinite pronoun) live there's only white people!" is both ignorant AND racist.)

[chardmonster]

People participating in fandom, especially those who are BNFs, should be aware that the things they are putting out there are being looked at/read/admired by approximately ten people

With the way the world and internet are right now, race is a topic in every fandom no matter how small. Unless they live under a rock entirely or they're new to all this, they must constantly self-flagellate.

[gondremark]

+ approximately 12

[(Anonymous)]

BNFs, fanfic writers or tumblr users as a whole don't owe you shit. Stop whining.

[(Anonymous)]

The irony is, the SJW above is prolly whiter than white.

[(Anonymous)]

As a white fanfic writer there is no way I would ever write about a character of colour*, because they would simply be a white person (based on me) wearing darker skin, and the only reason the reader could know that they were meant to be a person of colour is if I regularly, and inappropriately, mentioned the colour of their skin.

You may call that racist, I call it showing respect.

*Though, incidentally, as a woman, I don't have any problem writing male characters, mainly because my ex husband once told me he was sure he was more like me than like some of the men he had to deal with.

[(Anonymous)]

white person (based on me) wearing darker skin

This is 100% the problem with SJWs, IMO; that they think skin colour automatically makes people different, in incredibly specific ways, based on what specific colour each person is.

THAT IS RACISM YOU NITWITS.

/yeah yeah preaching to the choir

[(Anonymous)]

Not sure if you're agreeing with me or not!

Ultimately, all people are people (even straight white men ;-) but experience can make significant differences and the nature of a person's experience is influenced by the colour of their skin. I think that my experience as a white person will be sufficiently different from that of a person of colour -- I've never, for example, experienced racial discrimination -- to make any attempt on my part write a character of colour inappropriate wrong. This may not be the case in the future; otoh, it may still be somewhat the case if we figure out a way to achieve equality without simply erasing cultural differences...

[(Anonymous)]

POC here. Look, I can tell you mean well, there's no argument about that. What I find weird is that you somehow imagine that having a different skin color makes a person soooooo drastically different from you that you couldn't possibly write them well. I'm not sure I feel respected to know that white people consider me so alien, I can't possibly be very similar to them underneath because my skin isn't white. That's a very clear and uncomfortable way of saying I'm Not Like You.


"...and the only reason the reader could know that they were meant to be a person of colour is if I regularly, and inappropriately, mentioned the colour of their skin."

Really? When you write male characters, is the only reason the reader could know they were meant to be male is because you regularly, inappropriately mention their genitalia/self-identification? How do they know you're writing a man, then?

What I'm saying is, this is not the impossible problem you're making it out to be. It's okay to be nervous about writing POC characters. I am too! I'm nervous about doing anything well when it comes to writing! But it's not a "I can't even attempt it because it's disrespectful" thing.

[(Anonymous)]

da

Unfortunately the male analogy doesn't work because pronouns are pretty obvious :-/
I think anon is referring more to a character's influencing experiences as being different rather than innate characteristics.

[(Anonymous)]

Depends, the analogy works a little better if you assume one is writing in a language that doesn't have gender specific pronouns - reminds me of how I thought Glorfindel was a woman until I read LotR in English for the first time.

[tabaqui]

I agree with you, but - the people who will dogpile and hate on a white person for *daring* to imagine they can ever possibly understand one tiny aspect of the life of a person of color are, sadly, pretty damn vocal.

So it makes a lot of white writers really, really nervous.

To never write a person who is not the same as you is silly, because that's kinda boring and the world isn't like that, but i can understand the reluctance some people have to do that. (Though it's funny how nobody ever calls out a poc for writing a white person....)

[darkmanifest]

Though it's funny how nobody ever calls out a poc for writing a white person

The media, the news, the internet, history, the majority of any information around me have trained me to know the middle-class white straight US American perspective better than I do my own. When I first started writing as a kid, every character fit that description because I sincerely believed that's what stories were supposed to look like.

So the idea of being called out for writing that seems super odd to me. I mean, I guess I could get it wrong, I could get anything wrong, but really, writing my own actual experiences gives me more anxiety than yet another story about an awkward white US American kid in a suburban high school.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Pratchett got more rolled eyes for writing a novel that was overly indulgent of Vimes and had bad pacing, than for the fact that it was about the English abolition of slavery.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Curiously, people take for granted that I can write about fairies and lovecraftian tentacle monsters but get uncomfortable when I write characters who look like my neighbors.

[(Anonymous)]

anon you quoted...

I've said, further down the thread:

I would never attempt to write an OC of colour because I have no experience, either cultural or social, of what it's like to be a person of colour, so the character would simply be me (a white person) with darker skin.

You [the anon I'm responding to] are arguing that (in a fantasy context only?) that doesn't matter, and five years ago I might have agreed with you, but the discussions I have seen online, and the opinions expressed by people who I have no reason to doubt are persons of colour, have persuaded me that, at present, it would be an inappropriate thing to do it.*

Is that racist? There's no simple answer. To some people (including me), it is, because it means I'm assuming that persons of colour are somehow different from me. But to other people (also including me, looking at it in a different way), it's respectful, because I'm not assuming that I (a white person) am some sort of archetype.

I hope that's clearer and sounds less crappy!

* Until what is generally known as 'RaceFail 2009' happened, I would have thought that, far from being Not Like Me, you were Just Like Me, and I wouldn't have thought it disrespectful to attempt to write a POC character, but the anger I saw in those discussions was so intense, I was forced to revise my opinion. It's a difficult line to tread. I lost faith in my own instincts then and, honestly, I've never got it back...

As for writing male characters, well, yes, I do tend to write about their genitalia quite a bit, actually, but -- more importantly -- I have no idea whether any of my stories have ever been read by a man (I've certainly never had any feedback from a man), and I pretty much assume they aren't, so I tend deliberately to write men from a woman's perspective, and don't feel at all uncomfortable about that... Though it's undoubtedly sexist at some level and one day a man will probably come along and bash me over the head with a virtual shovel for it.

[(Anonymous)]

JFC, get off that high horse before you fall and hurt yourself, Anon. Neither you nor anybody else is the authority with whom we all must check to make sure our behavior and content are 'acceptable.' If you don't like what you find (or don't find) online, try another site or create whatever shit you think should be out here yourself.

People like you are the reason I sometimes want to do something wildly politically incorrect, SOLELY for the pleasure of watching you turn purple and explode.

[(Anonymous)]

DOOOOOOOOOO IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTT

[(Anonymous)]

If you want to say/do racist stuff, have the moxie to just go and do it already, don't use anyone else's internet posts as your excuse. Everyone who knows what "politically incorrect" really means is bored with your shit.

[(Anonymous)]

Don't stoop to OP's level.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm sorry but unpaid hobbyists posting their fantasy fodder on the internet don't owe fictional representation to anyone of any race, gender, class, religion, or sexuality.

[(Anonymous)]

+approximately one billion to this.

[(Anonymous)]

*Applauds*

[(Anonymous)]

They don't owe it. But doesn't that kind of mean it's truer to life? It's a nice big sign that says "I prefer a certain type of people over other types in my media."

Not saying they have to change it. But if you look at someone's online gallery and it's nothing but guys with gigantic wangs I'm not going to go "I am sure they're a lovely person who appreciates all wang size equally" I'm going to go "Whoa, someone has a hyper fetish!"

[(Anonymous)]

Well, that's your prerogative to judge.