[ SECRET POST #2638 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2638 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 055 secrets from Secret Submission Post #377.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[ketita]

I'm actually going to be the voice of dissent: I don't think he's reached the winging it stage at all.
You can dislike the plot; you can say that it's done stupid shit; you can say that it's badly paced. But so far a lot of this stuff has actually been foreshadowed in some way or another, or at least, it feels to me like it's been finagled reasonably into a single plot.
Also, things are moving at a decent pace in terms of development. We haven't had any "training arcs", for instance (there was ONE training montage so far and it was actually kind of interesting and only about 3 pages).

Also I heard somewhere that he's aiming for 80 chapters (which means more like 100, but fine). I'm personally really REALLY hoping that's true.

So I get you, and personally I'm following the manga for now and hoping I won't be betrayed by it, but I'm hoping. I've read a lot of shounen in my day, and this one isn't structured like the usual shounen series which just has a starting point and everything beyond it is empty space. They are actually aiming for something specific and they've got a time constraint.

So like I said: the pacing may be way off, but I don't feel like he's shooting wildly into the ether, either.

[(Anonymous)]

I actually agree. Every important thing that has happened has been foreshadowed way ahead of time. I really get the sense that he knows where he wants to go with the characters. He might have had to rethink the ultimate ending, but everything else is solid (except the pacing but being a monthly it probably makes it worst than it actually is).

[applemagpie]

I completely agree with everything you said. Yes the storytelling hasn't always been stellar, and it has been dragging out for a monthly chapter series, but I think it's pretty obvious that almost everything that has happened so far has already been planned out in Isayama's head, and I'm certain he has some idea of where he wants the story to go. Nearly everything that has happened in canon as of yet has already been alluded to, and the series is full of Chekhov's guns. I'm certain Isayama has included things like the Ape Titan at Utgard, or the woman in Eren and Christa's flashbacks, because they're going to be important later in the plot.
And so far there has been no filler.
I won't argue that Isayama is an ace storyteller, but I don't agree that he's winging the story at this point. (Whether the determined length ending will change, because Isayama changes his mind or the publisher asks him to, is something that I don't know though.)

[ketita]

yeah, I mean even some of the stuff that the fandom theorized seems to be reinforced by what we're seeing in canon so far (like the stuff about Eren's father, for instance).

[(Anonymous)]

I agree. There's been set mysteries and it seems like they're slowly being uncovered.

[caffeine_buzz]

I agree. Isayama isn't the greatest storyteller around, but he knows what his plot is doing and where it's headed, at least at this point. I'd be more worried if it was weekly instead of monthly, since the possibility of him running out of plans quicker would be more likely. Plus Titan is a lot less prone to fifty chapter long battles between every named hero and every named villain, which is generally the point where most never-ending manga start to feel to me like they're being made up as the author goes along ("Shoot, I don't know how to end this plot. Well, I'll just have everyone fight for 70 chapters, I'll probably have something figured out by the time it's done." Lookin' at you, Tite Kubo).

[(Anonymous)]

It's true. So far, there was only one chapter where the battles annoyed me, (forty-something? that one where there was like no dialogue at all in the entire chapter), but overall the battles don't drag out, and we don't have the trading off to fight bosses structure going on either.

Like I said, I've read a lot of shounen and while AoT reads to me as somebody who's a bit inexperienced with long plot construction, I definitely feel like he's trying to keep things moving. Unlike a lot of shounen which is like STUFF HAPPENS. THEN MORE STUFF HAPPENS (and lots of powerups on the way).

[applemagpie]

Again, agreed. Because it's labelled as shounen, I think a lot of people tend to expect that it follows similar shounen tropes and narrative structures, but for the most part it really doesn't. And actually, with the way it's currently being told, I don't even see how Shingeki could stretch out to the same length as say, DBZ, without having to turn to a different story altogether. Because even if it's kind of marketed as such, the series isn't actually about fighting Titans. The plot is a lot more succinct than that.

[ketita]

It's true. I mean, okay, there are some series that seem succinct and managed to drag it on via bizarre plot twists and red herrings for ages, like 20th Century Boys (I know it's a classic, but man that series annoyed me so much).
But so far SNK doesn't do the ~~haHA!!~~ thing much, even though you have plot twists and reveals. So far nothing has seemed like it's leaping outside of the general plot.

I do think it's kind of badly paced in that I'm bothered that apparently now no titans are doing anything, leaving the Scouting Legion free to plan their coup however they want, and um what is the ape titan doing because turning villages into titans is kind of a big deal...? So in that sense, the different plot elements are unbalanced. But it was clear from the beginning that the government was totally corrupt and they'd probably have to do something about that.

[applemagpie]

Oh boy, 20th Century Boys. That's a great example of a series that seemed like it had a succinct plot, but managed to drag itself on and on, and go all over the place. But for Shingeki, it really feels like Isayama has pre-storyboarded most of the plot, and is right now pretty much following it by the book.
I definitely agree with you about the pacing. Like you said, Isayama isn't great with the whole long plot construction thing. And I feel like he's so intent on revealing things at the right time, that everything just gets focused on one by one. (Like before, Eren's power reveal! Now, military police reveal!) I do find the story intriguing enough that I'm still following the series and not forcing myself to care about it, but yeah. Not perfect storytelling on his part.

[ketita]

Exactly! I was really interested in 20th Century Boys at the beginning, but then it just got all wtf. And honestly, I was like who the fuck cares who "Friend" is, shoot the fucker and let's move on.

Yeah, AoT isn't perfect, but I don't mind going along with it for the ride to see how it ends up. TBH I prefer a series that tries to have a real plot (even if it's not paced the best) over the fluff that barely even pretends to be cohesive or properly planned.
You're definitely right on him always focusing on one plot element - maybe that's his big weakness, really. Only one thing can be spotlighted at any given moment, so the plot ends up kind of disjointed. But I am having fun, so I don't mind :)

[applemagpie]

I felt the exact same way about 20th Century Boys, let me tell you.

I prefer a series that tries to have a real plot (even if it's not paced the best) over the fluff that barely even pretends to be cohesive or properly planned.
Same. Isayama's storytelling and art might be on the rough side, but it's honestly that what makes up for it.

[ketita]

So many anime these days feel like a collection of tropes, rather than trying to construct an actual story. So I definitely appreciate that AoT is a plot-driven series, no fanservice. It makes me hope that maybe its success will lead to more people to try and pull off grand plotty stories rather than moeshit all day...

At least someone agrees with me! So many people seem to love 20th Century Boys so much and I was just annoyed for most of it.

[applemagpie]

Yeah, Shingeki is refreshing for the genre at the moment, and you have to give it kudos for that.

Honestly, I feel like the rampant 20th Century Boys love mostly has to do with Urasawa worship. Other than the start, it was just a mess, and it felt like nothing was ever getting resolved. Annoying's a good word for it.

[ketita]

whoops sorry, that was me, I don't know why it randomly signed me out.

[(Anonymous)]

Totally agree. It hasn't had any filler crap so far.