fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #315 ]

⌈ Secret Post #315 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

HAVE A RANDOM POLL. YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO. FOR GREAT JUSTICE.

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #045.
Secrets Not Posted: 0 broken links, 0 not!secrets, 0 not!fandom, [ 1 ] repeats.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Saturday, November 17th, 2007.
Current Secret Submission Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Sometimes I think I'm the only person that wants a show about brotherhood to remain about brotherhood. It's the Sam and Dean show, and if they add in chicks for the sake of adding in chicks, that's stupid.

In short, keep your women out of my SPN.

Except that there are chicks for the sake of plot. Huh. Amazing that.

They're not Main Characters. They either die or play damsel in distress for Dean and Sam. I mean, you could argue that Bela and what's-her-name, there - uh, Mary Sue Demon - are recurring characters, but you could cut them both out of the plot and so far it would hardly change the chain of events in the season.

And anything Mary Sue Demon does wouldn't matter to the secret-maker, anyway, since she wants a strong female character that isn't a demon. Ew, just the thought of a strong female character on SPN makes me want to throw up a little.

Bela and Ruby are actually quite important to the plot, I'd argue. Bela was central to two episodes and certainly useful in a third. And Ruby, well. She doesn't count to the secret maker, but she is clearly being set up to be an important part of the "is Sam still SAM?" arc. (She's no more a Mary Sue, IMO, than Bobby.)

And if the thought of a strong recurring female character makes you want to throw up, what's your opinion on Ellen?

Also-- "just the thought of a strong female character on SPN makes me want to throw up a little." That sort of comment is why people think SPN fandom is misogynist. If you feel the need to argue the point, kindly reread that sentence. I'll be over in my headdesking corner.

I think the very significant difference is that I don't mind strong female roles - I'm actually quite miffed that most of my fandoms don't have enough of them - but I don't think Supernatural is the right venue for a very strong recurring female character that'll not get killed or be a demon.

But Bobby is totally okay. And Hendrickson. And Gordon (oh wait, he was a recurring character who DID get killed off. Because we can always tell that a character will survive their arc when they're introduced.)

I'm sorry you can't understand when you're being sexist.

I never said I didn't hate the other guys. I'm pretty sure I had a party when the fucking stupid Gordon plot ended.

Then don't be a fuckwit and say you "don't like strong women" when you "don't like recurring characters" on Supernatural. The first one makes you sound like a sexist fuckwit. The second one is stupid in the context of an ongoing television show but understandable.

Edited 2007-11-18 22:51 (UTC)

I definitely don't like the women more because I feel like they're being forced into a boy's club atmosphere. Kind of like if there was suddenly a male babysitter in the Babysitter's club back when I used to read it. I would've hated it.

In short, keep your women out of my SPN.

Do you really mean that?

Look, I want the show to remain about brotherhood, too. I want it to be the Sam and Dean show, not the Scooby Gang from Buffy--a show I don't particularly like--with large numbers of people of all genders and all the interpersonal drama that went with that.

But I loved Ellen, and I liked Jo a lot after they realised she was Dean's fangirl and little sister and stopped trying to make them boyfriend and girlfriend.

I realise the CW has put a lot of pressure on Kripke to add more hot women characters, while deleting Jo and Ellen because they couldn't be shipped with the boys. But I think that by making Ruby a demon and Bela a complete bitch who is out to get the boys, Kripke is doing OK in the "not giving them girlfriends and associated relationship DRAH-MA" sweepstakes, which is all I ask. I like Ruby. I don't like Bela, but I don't think we are supposed to like Bela, either. (Which has never stopped me from liking characters I like, but the point is, I don't feel she's being shoved down my throat.)

I know that those people who get on and bitch about how "misogynist" our fandom is every time we object to girlfriends and luuuuuuuuurve interests, a lot of whom are imports from Buffy and want canon het and want our show to be like theirs, are annoying as goddamn shit, but when you say things like what I just quoted, you make them look right, so please don't.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion. So far I've absolutely hated every female character they've brought in for more than one episode. Maybe if they came up with one I was interested in and had a good dynamic, I wouldn't be so angry at the women of Supernatural. But there it is, I am. I mean, Bela's starting to grow on me, but even then it's only in a 'please let this story line GO somewhere' sense. I guess that one's hope. I hate Ruby. I hated Ellen. I really hated Jo.

I'm so totally the opposite in every other fandom I'm in. I don't think there are enough women in Law and Order or House and so on. I think Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings are downright embarrassing for their lack of strong female roles. I just don't think Supernatural is the right venue for girl characters. It's the boy's club.

Yes, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but it's a really weird opinion there. What about SPN makes it the boys' club? Sam and Dean live in a world that's half female, they don't live in a country where women are kept in purdah--it would be really WEIRD if a significant number of the people they interact with on a regular basis weren't female. And there's nothing they do that requires a dick, balls or a Y chromosome. There should be women in their world.

That doesn't mean the focus has to be on these characters or that it should become an ensemble cast like Buffy. Absolutely not. But why the recurring characters in their world should all be male, is there some reason for that? I can't think of one.

[ SECRET POST #315 ]

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