[ SECRET POST #2651 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2651 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 051 secrets from Secret Submission Post #379.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[blueonblue]

If you want to make money off your work, change the names and rewrite it into original fiction.

Putting aside the legal issues, in my experience selling fanfic damages the community aspect of fandom and accelerates a fandom's decline. I've never seen really good writers do it - it seems to be mostly mediocre smut writers who let their BNF status and high hit counts go to their head. I think Tiger and Bunny would be a much livelier fandom today if Galiko and their circle hadn't decided it was their personal golden goose.

[(Anonymous)]

Wait, what?

I have to ask: what happen in the T&B fandom?
I remember I used to follow a fic co-written by Galiko and assumed they had got bored with the fandom and quited, just like pretty much most other fans.

[blueonblue]

They started a "doujinshi circle" "based in Japan" - http://redstringproductions.org/join.php, but of course the whole thing fell apart. Even before that, Galiko would try to run people who disagreed with their headcanon out of the fandom.

[(Anonymous)]

Now I'm gald I never liked what I saw of Ouropornos, which was obviously before they started that... thing.
I refuse to call that a doujinshi circle, because even if they compare it with doujin circles it's pretty obvious they don't even know anything about the doujinshi market in Japan (starting with the fact that most circles barely make enough to cover the cost of participating in an event [including travel, hosting and printing costs] or the fact doujinshi makers have to pay taxes or...)

Ugh, I hope she doesn't try to pull the same thing in the KnB fandom I don't fear for the PoT fandom, since it died long before Galiko got into it.

Thanks for the answer <3

[(Anonymous)]

I was never very deep into the Tiger & Bunny fandom-- who is Galiko and what did they do?

[blueonblue]

BNF and co-writer of a really popular AU called Ouropornos, wanted to sell subscriptions to the AU. There was a lot of ugly drama, mostly on tumblr, so it is deleted and lost.

[(Anonymous)]

oooh interesting. I love T&B and always wondered why it didn't have much of a fandom. gotta look this up

[blueonblue]

While I was trying to remember the name of their circle, I came across this: http://wankgate.dreamwidth.org/11483.html?thread=29147099

Grudgewank, but a lot of it is true (the bullying, the cats).

[(Anonymous)]

"If you want to make money off your work, change the names and rewrite it into original fiction."

I hear this a lot, but I wonder how come nobody tells artists this? Oh, if you want to make money off your fanart, just change it a bit and sell it as original art instead. There's still this strange double standard for fanart vs. fanfiction.

[(Anonymous)]

Probably because an original story has better chance of being sold than a drawing of two(or one or more) random characters, not matter how well drawn they are?

[(Anonymous)]

SA

Just wanted to clarify that what I mean is that stories can be considered as a stand alone (which give them a chance of being sold), while a poster/phone case/etc. (which is how fanarts is usually sold, afaik) would have to be VERY eye catching for someone to consider buying it.
Otherwise most people would say "yeah, that's nice" and move on to search something with their favorite character/something they like more.

[(Anonymous)]

It's not that easy to sell original writing. Ask any struggling writers how many rejections they've received, how hard it is to find an agent who'll even look at your manuscript and how difficult it is to make decent sales even if you're published.

[(Anonymous)]

No one said it was easy, but compared to the chances of selling random original illustrations, a writer may have a better chance on getting someone interested on their original story.
Hell, someone drawing comics has a better chance of selling their original comics, illustrations and other stuff using their art than someone who draws random original characters.

And the point of all this is that most "fanartist" only draw illustrations and that makes pretty obvious why they would have a harder time selling their original stuff than someone creating more than that.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think it would work the same way for art. You can file the serial numbers off fic and still reach the same audience because you can change enough to avoid copyright but still hit the same buttons that drew them to the original - certain character dynamics or fantasy tropes or whatnot. Kinky porn is kinky porn regardless of what you call the characters.

Whereas fanart draws on people's interest in something that is, generally, in a different medium. Most people don't want Harry Potter fanart because they're really into dark-haired kids with whimsically shaped scars and striped scarves, they want it because they have an interest in the character who happens to look like that or the story that he comes from. So drawing pictures of a dark-haired kid with square glasses, a crescent-shaped scar, and a purple and yellow scarf just wouldn't work the same way. There's a lot more overlap between the markets for fanfic and original fiction than between the markets for fan art and original artwork.

[(Anonymous)]

Kinky porn is kinky porn regardless of what you call the characters.

How does this not work for art, too?

Or is fan fiction all porn now and fan art is all clean and holy?

[(Anonymous)]

Perhaps because most fanart is shittier than most fanfic? I think this is an unspoken truth. There's fewer fanartists than writers about so they get more praise for less, that's all.

Like someone said below, if you did a Harry Potter fanart, but changed his hair colour/clothing and gave him square glasses, there's very little market to sell that art (unless it's a known AU).

If you wrote a Harry Potter novel-length fanfic, then changed enough details so it was original fic, you could potentially sell it.

Doesn't that imply that most fanart is simply of a lower standard than the average fanfic?

[(Anonymous)]

Could potentially, yeah, but thinking it's realistic to sell your crappy rebranded fanfiction when original fiction is hard as hell to break into is funny in its own right.

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe it implies that people have lower standards for writing than for art?

[(Anonymous)]

"Putting aside the legal issues, in my experience selling fanfic damages the community aspect of fandom and accelerates a fandom's decline."

Ah. That would explain why the Star Wars franchise is dead, along with Sherlock Holmes and Jane Austen. Oh wait...

[blueonblue]

Licensed novels aren't the same as setting up shop on AO3. And in the early days of Sherlock Holmes fandom, amateur publication was more like the zines that came later, the money was needed to cover the costs, not to make a profit. William Baring-Gould spent more money writing about Sherlock Holmes than he made.

If you're so eager to make money from fanfic, there's nothing stopping you from writing Star Wars novels and sending query letters to the publishers.

[(Anonymous)]

Most of the Sherlock Holmes and Jane Austen novels on the market aren't licensed, though. The only SH works that are "official" in the sense that they were endorsed by Arthur Conan Doyle's estate was Anthony Horowitz' House of Silk. The rest of them were all written by people just like the writers on AO3, but who managed to get their work published.

The Sherlock Holmes fandom is not only NOT in decline, it's bigger than ever with two successful TV series and a movie franchise. Jane Austen isn't doing too badly either, there's been fairly regular film/miniseries adaptations for the last two decades and tons of book sequels, spin-offs and parodies. No acceleration in fandom decline for either of them.

[(Anonymous)]

Those are also in the public domain.

[(Anonymous)]

In deed. The creators are very dead, unable to create more themselves. I guess that's implied with public domain.

[(Anonymous)]

No, a creator may be dead but their work may not be in public domain yet. It depends on their country and its copyright laws.

[(Anonymous)]

How is that relevant in this particular discussion? This isn't about legality, it's about whether or not publishing fanfiction "damages the community aspect of fandom and accelerates a fandom's decline."

Clearly, in the case of Sherlock Holmes and Jane Austen, it hasn't. The fact that they're in the public domain only proves that they're old fandoms who've somehow managed to survive decades and decades of fanworks and their communities are larger than ever.