fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2655 ]

[ SECRET POST #2655 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2655 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Divergent]

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04. [WARNING for underage character+sex?]

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[Archer]

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08.

[Hannibal]

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09.

[Wolverine and the X-Men]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 07 secrets from Secret Submission Post #379.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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"objectively shit"

gog I am so tired of hearing that

you didn't like it - okay. Some people do, stop staring down your nose, OP, and get over it.

I was afraid I'd be the only one thinking that.

Like...I'll admit it wasn't perfect but there was something about the book that drew me in.

Also ...how the hell is it anything like My Immortal? So some people liked the MC...I think it was like...two people. It didn't remind me of MI at all.

I don't know, I kind of agreed with that part of the secret because I was remembering the way she was describing the Dauntless people all dressed in black with tattoos and nose rings. And of course at the very beginning she looks in the mirror and tells the reader what she looks like. Honestly, I'm enjoying what I'm reading so far, but I'm also laughing at it quite a bit too.

Oh...I didn't think gothic I just sorta thought more, idk hardcore gangster/ tough as nails stereotype. I guess that is sorta similar but ...i guess when I wrote it, I thought it was done better than "description of self just because I want to" . I saw the people in ....the group she grew up in sorta like the Amish and seeing looking at yourself as selfish or whatever, and her doing it ...sorta told us that she didn't fit in that particular ...whatever it was called.

*shrug* but I guess it depends from person to person. I can sorta see it now that you explain it, but that wasn't quite the image I got when I first read it.

Also it's been a LONG time since I read it , so...yeah.

I think you could make a strong argument for the "looking in the mirror and explaining to the audience what I look like" cliche being justified here for the reason you said but it did still stand out to me as a cliche. And then she trips and I laughed and went "oh she's clumsy, of course".

I'm partly just nitpicking because I find that fun. I'm certainly not going to go around telling people to stop liking it.

Ah okay. I apologize. I tend to to sometimes look at things in a different way I suppose.

Maybe I was also biased because it was something I kind of enjoyed when I read it, I can sometimes be defensive of something I like. sorry.

Wait what? What are you apologizing for? Looking at things a different way from other people is a good thing.

Oh okay.

I just apologize too much. It's a habit.

It's okay. I have several friends like that. Asking "what are you apologizing for?" is practically becoming a habit of my own.

(no subject)

jaybie_jarrett - 2014-04-11 00:58 (UTC) - Expand

Don't apologize for liking Divergent and not thinking it's shit. It's not any more shoddy or ridiculous than say, Supernatural, Doctor Who, or any comic-based movies that are popular on F!S. Lots of people just like to hate YA just because it's YA.

*nod* I feel like some of it is a case of It's Popular So It Sucks, or whatever the trope is. Right now it's YA , it's popular enough to get a movie, and thus the regular stream of "well it's not THAT great why is it getting so much attention". I actually found a book the other day that went into psychological detail about Divergent's world. Pretty cool.

to be honest I definitely think some of this is at play here.

OMG the author pulls the mirror thing? Holy shit.

I learned not to do that years ago.

At least there's a justification for it. The character's upbringing strictly limits the use of mirrors because the people are supposed to be selfless and mirrors are considered vain, so looking in one is a big deal for her.

totally justified, though! I give her props for boldness.

Yeah, see the thing about writing is , you gotta know how to break rules JUST right if you're going to do it. The problem with the mirror thing is that its often used as a shortcut or an excuse to describe oneself. You shouldn't use it as a shortcut when there's no reason. HOWEVER you can have a situation where in context it makes sense.

Like the one here. or how about a story where say the protagonist grew up with NO mirrors and they had never seen themselves, and at one point they find one and actually SEE themselves for the first time. There's an example of where a mirror description could work. In Divergent the context is that she's sneaking a look in the mirror because in her culture , mirrors are considered vain and not often used. It had more use than just having her describe her looks, she's breaking the rules of her upbringing. it shows that she doesn't really feel happy with the faction she's in. Another example where it might work, is where it's ESTABLISHED that say the protagonist is vain, and they're looking in the mirror describing themselves with flowery words. It could be done PURPOSEFULLY to tell the reader that the character is vain and thinks highly of themselves or just care a lot about their looks.

So yeah, there's not many hard and absolute "don't ever do this" type things. The "looking in the mirror thing" shouldn't be done as a lazy excuse to describe character's appearance because the author wants to but can't think of any good way to do it. Or like if your character describes themselves in a flowery poetic way, but then you try to tell us she's actually modest and just saying it because people have TOLD her so. If she honestly doesn't think much of her appearance she's not going to do that just because people tell her so. like it doesn't matter how many people tell me my eyebrows are fine and pretty, and they wish they had eyebrows like that, I still hate them and try to cover them up.

Context matters in whether or not something is badly written.

AYRT

Hey, thanks. This is a really great comment, and you've given me a lot to think about, and I sincerely appreciate it.

You're welcome. :3 Glad I helped.

I think in some ways, it might make more sense to stop thinking of these things as rules at all, and think of them instead as procedures. they are one way of doing things, which has a certain specific rationale, and which makes sense in a certain circumstance, and which is an established, tested way for ending up with a certain product. but they're not some kind of law in the sand, or some kind of natural prohibition, or something. and when we call them rules, we start treating them that way.

and procedures are not bad things - they're very very useful things. They are good and it is often wise to take account of them. "Don't have your character describe themselves in a mirror" is one useful procedure for writing a story, but as you say, it is not the only way to write a story.

I agree.

I get really tired in general of people talking about objective quality. And it doesn't help that those people usually come off as snobs/elitists anyway. This is no exception.

I know what you are talking about, but at the same time I can say that I often find myself tired of people talking about how no objective quality exists. I just want to say, sorry, it's not true, go read some actual literary criticism research.

Objective quality exists, it just depends on the writing technique, devices, tropes, and language, not on the reader's feelings regarding the book. "Objectively shit" doesn't meant that it isn't enjoyable or shouldn't be enjoyable, it means that the writing is bad.

I'm just gonna agree to disagree here. I don't really want to get into this argument right now.

Sure deal! I don't have much energy for arguments right now, either, but this topic is virtually my second profession, so I failed to stop myself from commenting :)

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