fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2667 ]

[ SECRET POST #2667 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2667 ⌋

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Question: what do you think education is for? Is it for the people who already knows the answer or for people who don't?

That isn't helpful for anyone else in the class

No. It isn't helpful for you, for whom this is easy.

If people don't know the answer and you insist on singling them out for that purpose, you are a bad teacher. Not even just bad - a horrible teacher. Your job as a teacher is to teach, not to shame people who may not have done the reading on an assignment everyone in the room is guaranteed to forget within the month.

Teaching requires more than a standard, blanket approach to everybody in the classroom. If you don't know your students' situations then you aren't being effective in your duties. When you call on students in the classroom knowing they don't know the answer to your question, you aren't looking for them to learn. If you were teaching properly, which should be your goal, then every capable student in the room would be able to answer your question to begin with, and your questions thus would only serve as refreshers or a small "pop" quiz of sorts.

People are different and have different methods of learning that work best for them. If you understand and utilize these properly, spend appropriate time with your pupils and focus on ensuring they are absorbing & fully understanding information rather than memorizing it until after the test or the semester, you might see more participation in the classroom. The education system has failed a lot of students and that follows them from grade to grade. It's not apathy from the students that silences most of them, in my own experience as a teacher. It's apathy from the teacher that does this. After all, who would want to engage a teacher they knew was seeking to shame and harass them?

Learn to teach or leave the classroom.

Haahaahah you've never taught anything, I can tell. Teaching is the opposite of a "blanket" approach. People don't even all have the same learning style; you need to know and incorporate various methods in order to be successful at teaching an entire room full of students. At some point or another almost every student is going to need individual attention to understand a concept.

You also need to keep control of your classroom and set limits. I put my time in to prepare a lesson (usually 3-4 hours of my time, outside the classroom, for a single class- I'd usually have 2-3 of those per day)... you can take the hour to prepare for that lesson, or I'm going to be hard on you. You don't get to show up and expect me to sit there and talk at you, and you don't get to take advantage of me. That's not what I'm being paid for.

I teach international relations, terrorism and national defense courses at a local university.

You're absolutely right about the blanket approach, which is my point. If you call out students who seem to not understand or know the answer to your questions, and if you think this is an effective way of encouraging learning in your students, then what you're doing is applying a blanket tactic to your students with the presumption that it's going to be effective. I've seen several of my colleagues do this during inter-department evaluations, but I've never once seen it work. The students they call out are the students they tend to fail regardless. You want your students to succeed, right? You should be doing your best to help them, not giving up at the slightest resistance and resorting to bullying to set some kind of example for other students who are already doing relatively well.

You can't always help every student. We have our limits too. But I think you should consider being kinder to students who seem unwilling or unable to learn, because that's not a permanent condition for many, and shaming them is not an effective deterrent.

Setting limits is integral to ensuring the classroom remains a good learning environment for all of your students, but if your idea of setting limits is publicly shaming them for not knowing the answers to your questions then I think you need to reevaluate how you teach. You aren't getting paid to assign a reading segment and expect your students to teach themselves. You're there to be that guiding element, not some classroom warden that only exists to punish people who - for some reason or another, be that because they didn't read, couldn't understand the material, etc. - aren't absorbing the lessons.

Teaching requires love and care. It certainly isn't a well-paid job where I'm from so I doubt that's why you're teaching either. If you want to make an impact on your students, don't be satisfied by the few who made it out of your classes with decent marks. Make an impact by being different, being innovative and understanding and earnest in your desire to help these people grow. If you do that, I can guarantee more and more students will walk out of your courses feeling more enlightened, and along the way you can kick some of the stragglers into gear. That's infinitely better than being satisfied with lesser success on your end and on your students' ends also. Agree?

Oh, you teach.

I hate to say it, but the behavior of the international relations students I've had at my own university kind of indicates that they're used to being spoonfed and not having to read in detail.

This is... kind of disconcerting. You know we're teaching adults, right? Of course you should be kind about it, I see no point to lingering so the rest of the class can point and laugh. But people in a classroom should expect to be called on. That's part of the point.

Edited 2014-04-23 00:59 (UTC)

Hahaha I wasn't teaching adults. I was teaching teens. I think you can imagine the differences.

And... I used to teach. I liked it fine, but I decided to move on.

I was talking to the anon you responded to.

that...is the entire point of the post, though. OP specifically said they didn't mind cold-calling, it was the lingering thing for the embarrassment of the student that bothers them.

Oh, I know! Not talking to OP.

I'm not sure where you teach, nor does it particularly matter to me, but students who share a major or a discipline share only that. I taught German language and culture courses starting out, and between those and what I teach now I also taught courses pertaining to the EU, UN and a more specific course about relations in Europe. You may think the students in this field are a certain way at where you teach but where I teach the field attracts a variety of students and I've never gotten the impression they acted spoonfed, as you say.

But even if that was the case, so long as they're learning and are on par with other students then so be it. I'd rather be perceived as spoonfeeding my students and seeing results, hearing back from many of them years later to learn of their accomplishments since then, receiving gratitude from students who received letters of recommendation for internships and international programs, seeing them apply knowledge gained from my courses in a manner that indicates that what they got out of the class was information for the long term, not just lists of factoids to memorise until the next exam. I don't perceive my style of teaching as spoonfeeding - rather, I take individual time with my students to ensure, to the best of my ability, that their learning styles are being accommodated properly and that their struggles are not a result of my faults as an instructor.

I call on my students every now and then as well, generally on class time I've set aside for review. What I do is I randomise the roster, rather than scan the room for the most anxious or clueless looking face. I do have some colleagues who insist on doing that, but I don't understand what they hope to accomplish besides humiliating someone who is struggling (for any reason). It's one thing to call on someone and receive a blank stare or a mumble, and then to move on to someone else. If you want to incorporate impromptu Q&As like that, be my guest. It's another thing entirely, of course, to purposely embarrass students. And I think it's wise regardless to keep in mind that calling on some people out of the blue is ineffective for them whether they know the answer or not. Adults can have these problems too. It doesn't hurt to be accommodating to your students. It doesn't mean you have to slow down everybody else in the process either.

I don't want to go into detail, but the university where I work (I'm a TA, not a prof, but we do a lot in my department) has a very well regarded IR program. So I'm not calling the students dumb! Just used to a certain model of education that I'm not sure serves them well. They can do better, because they are bright.

But even if that was the case, so long as they're learning and are on par with other students then so be it.

But are they learning anything, then? Or just learning to regurgitate in such a configuration that you can give them good grades?

I'd rather be perceived as spoonfeeding my students and seeing results,

What results, exactly? If they're being spoonfed, again, are they learning much?

I take individual time with my students to ensure

Okay--see, this is good! The way you were wording things before made it look like you're one of those profs that just shows the class a powerpoint and has them take notes.

This might be the difference between our disciplines talking. I'm in history; what we're doing is teaching students to read primary source documents and utilize individual critical thinking to wrestle with them. They aren't learning specific professional skills; we don't have the sort of transaction learning I think your students expect (i.e. they pay tuition, they expect you to get the information into their heads; they expect the class to adapt to them, the customer, rather than they adapt to the class). The IR students at my university appear to be paying for a certification they can then use to make gobs of money. The history majors are instead learning to think and argue, which they can then apply to a variety of fields. It's a little more idealistic that way--like majoring in English or Creative Writing.

In my discipline, not doing the reading is not being remotely engaged in the class; doing the reading is what you signed on for. It's like showing up to a writing class having not written anything. If students aren't talking, there isn't much going on.

It's another thing entirely, of course, to purposely embarrass students.

I've only seen this happen in two instances. In one, absolutely nobody was speaking, because nobody had done the reading. This shows an utter lack of respect for the prof, the class, and frankly their own tuition money. In the second, the guy was sleeping in the second row. Openly. Snoring. Dude deserved it.

If you're going to single out a student in any other circumstance, you're a jerk.

Edited 2014-04-23 02:04 (UTC)

I had doubts starting out because I wasn't sure how effective I would be as a teacher, but yes, I do think they're learning. Elsewhere I said I often hear back from past students who have furthered their education and have thanked me for taking the time to work with them in a manner that best suits them, rather than sticking to one approach and hoping it helps most of them. I'm sure some of my students walk out of the room and promptly forget everything at the end of the semester, but there's only so much we can do as instructors (or assistants) to convince others to nurture their learning. I've found that showing flexibility and a sincere eagerness to work with my students has yielded the best outcomes when it comes to true absorption.

I may make myself out to be a really lenient teacher that doesn't assign work but I do. I just try to make sure it's useful and something that can be retained. I'm a fairly strict grader (more so when I was teaching language courses) and my classes are not what I would call "easy" As. I try to challenge the people I teach because doing so ensures that many of them will remember the material for the long term. As rigid as my grading can be, I don't let it affect my warmth towards my students and my dedication to their success. There's a very happy medium between being the "best friend" teacher and the "iron fist" teacher, both of which - in my opinion - are more likely to be relatively useless than they are to produce results. I think part of reaching that medium necessitates the use of compassion in the classroom, in such a way that if a student is struggling or - for whatever reason - doesn't know an answer when you spring a question on them, your first course of action isn't to make them feel bad. I'm starting to think that wasn't really what you were saying you do anyway though.

I already wrote up the situation in which I used to use the tactic of forcing answers in another comment, but to summarize: problem students.

You're absolutely right, it's bullying, but most of the students I used that approach with were bullies themselves (occasionally I'd do it to wake up someone who was about to fall asleep lol). Trying to maintain order in a class full of teenagers is pretty delicate, and in some cases there's no hope for it unless the students are a little scared of you... particularly in cases where you both know you're not allowed to restrain them. For me it was absolutely successful: it kept them from harming the rest of the students in my care and it kept them from forming the idea that they might be able to gang up on me. I taught in a private school, and there was option of sending them away for discipline.

In any case, I'm not a teacher anymore because I have other interests that I felt were more important uses of my time, career-wise. I can happily report that in all my terms my students passed their exams (the ones that were failing dropped out when I made it clear that my terms weren't going to be the bird course that they were used to) and did leave my classroom more enlightened than when they arrived.

I've little sympathy for bullies of any sort so if you'd like to pick on students who dish the same thing out to others then I suppose you can do that if you like. The fact, however, that you said only most of these people were bullies themselves troubles me though. I hope you meant the remainder of those you did this too were falling asleep?

I guess you and I have/had differing methods of teaching then. I try to be kind at all times, though you may think of that as coddling. I think your methods are hit and miss and when they miss is where it's really problematic, but it doesn't really matter much now.

My methods change according to circumstance, if it makes you feel any better.

My teaching philosophy is "find the lesson that fits the student". It worked pretty much the same way for discipline. I wouldn't push this kind of attention to students who would benefit from a personal talking-to after the lecture. I would absolutely do it for someone who was looking for public attention from the rest of their classmates and had a history of acting up (I made sure to get that information from the people who had my job previously before I was hired on- this wasn't just based on guesswork).

Your job as a teacher is to teach, not to shame people who may not have done the reading on an assignment everyone in the room is guaranteed to forget within the month.

HAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHA oh wow you don't think you should be shamed for not doing your fucking homework? What do you think the teacher's job is? Fucking customer service?

If you don't know your students' situations then you aren't being effective in your duties.

What, their condition of not doing their fucking homework?

you aren't looking for them to learn.

We are trying to get them to do the fucking reading

you were teaching properly, which should be your goal, then every capable student in the room would be able to answer your question to begin with,

I see. You want to be spoonfed. You are an idiot.

People are different and have different methods of learning that work best for them.

Most effective methods involve doing the reading

The education system has failed a lot of students

Oh honey. It never failed you. You weren't participating.

Learn to teach or leave the classroom.

Learn to do your fucking homework or flunk out. I hope you don't waste too much of your parents' money doing so.

Edited 2014-04-23 00:52 (UTC)

Dude, the punishment for not doing your homework is a bad grade, not public humiliation.

If not being able to answer a question actually humiliates you (it happens to everyone, including A students) you should probably stick to online courses.

Here's the thing: a lot of people don't raise their hands but do know the answer. They are lazy.

Edited 2014-04-23 01:36 (UTC)

except you were talking about purposefully shaming students, not merely calling on them and them saying "I don't know". those are two really really different things.

A lot of people who know the answer and don't raise their hands are trying to not be know-it-alls though I'm sure that's not everyone.

I know we've settled my teaching status already but I want to reiterate that there are indeed problems in the education system that leave a lot of students (mostly those with less conventional learning styles) with less support than they need. This is the fault of their teachers in my opinion. A student can only do so much to teach themselves; some are better off than others in this way, but as a teacher I do my personal best to ensure that all my students are genuinely learning because it's important to me.

I've had a number of students with learning disabilities or other particular needs who did not easily absorb reading material, for a variety of reasons. I've had a few students who were dyslexic, one of which did not inform me of this at the start of class out of embarrassment and hope that they could get by in my class without reading the material. Perhaps that was a fault on their end for not informing me earlier but I was able to work it through with them. I've had other students - this is common with freshmen - who simply took on too much without realising far too late and didn't have the time to dedicate to my class. This is a problem that I can only do so much about, but it's clear to me that sometimes students who haven't done assignments are not merely lazy or careless, which is why I'm not in favour of shaming them in class.

Call on students all you like, I'm only saying I don't think the goal there should be to make your students feel bad. If anything the goal should be to test their knowledge. As I said above, if someone is struggling with an answer - no matter what you think the reason is - in my opinion it's better to move on than to grill them in front of the class.

As I said above, if someone is struggling with an answer - no matter what you think the reason is - in my opinion it's better to move on than to grill them in front of the class.

...or, you help guide them to that answer, which isn't grilling. It's important to find that good middle spot where you're challenging without insulting, and that takes experience.

As for the disability stuff--it stinks, but there's only so much we can do in a hardcore humanities field. If someone literally can't read the material--say, something from the 1860s--I can't really fix that. We're dealing with material that's challenging. Luckily my institution has a good office of disability services; it's very easy to arrange increased time or other accommodations for exams and get notetakers. I'd do my best to do that adhoc if I end up getting a job at a college that doesn't offer this.

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