[ SECRET POST #2669 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2669 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 017 secrets from Secret Submission Post #381.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

One of the big tragedies of zine fandom is that a lot of them are cataloged and referenced, but only exist in print form and cannot be found or even summarized on the web, so you are faced with a tantalizing unfulfilled glimpse forever.

Not only are the fics impossible to find, but so are letters from letterzines, the precursors of usenet discussions and review comments. I would really like to be able to read the discussions people had way back then, especially given the shift in values.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh wow, letterzines, now I am really going to show my age, lol. I published two letterzines back in the 'day' for two tv shows. It really was a labor of love - waiting weeks for actual Locs (letters of comment) to come in the mail via a real mailman ;) Typing it on an IBM typewriter, reducing it in the darkroom at work, pasting it on regular old typing paper to make a booklet form, adding artwork, editorial, etc., then driving it to a printer (really just a shop with massive copiers) and paying a lot of bucks to produce the print run. Then bringing it home, collating it on the floor, stapling them together, putting them in envelopes, addressing them, paying the postage and mailing them. Whew...at their height, my two letterzines had sub lists totalling about 200 people. So, yeah, I spent a lot of money and the sub prices never really covered it, but it sure was FUN ;-) And I did them for a total of about 8 years! Geez, I was crazy ;-)

[fingalsanteater]

That's awesome!

[(Anonymous)]

That is SO COOL. We have a legend in our midst! What time period was this?

[(Anonymous)]

Hearing wild praise for fics that are nowhere online is such torture. There's this one Starsky & Hutch zine fic called "Mojave Crossing" that I've wanted to read for a long time but probably won't be able to until I get my own place and can buy whatever I want without fear of anyone else seeing it.

[fingalsanteater]

I WANT TO READ THAT ONE TOO!

[roanshi]

Mojave Crossing is everything you've heard about it, AND MORE.

[(Anonymous)]

Man, you're torturing us!

[(Anonymous)]

I had that zine years ago! I sold it long ago, unfortunately. I wasn't really into the slash in Starsky and Hutch, but I did read that one and it was oh so angst filled and wonderful for the time ;-)

[(Anonymous)]

Mojave Crossing wasn't slash, though. Just really strong friendship and hurt/comfort.

[(Anonymous)]

Some fans (thankfully few) even object to the zine cataloging and referencing and are furious that those tantalizing glimpses are being alowed. They also protest anonymized quoting from letterzines or summarizing the topics discussed. Hell, when people started donating their old zines to the various archives 5 years ago, these same small minded fans objected to that as well. They basically want fandom to remain their own private club - and damn those who came in after their Golden Age of Zines.

[(Anonymous)]

That's so shitty and unfair. How the fuck would they feel if they were locked out of the history of a fandom for a show they liked? Hell, Starsky & Hutch fandom history isn't just about that specific show -- it was a big part of how fandom as we know it today was created in the first place.

I love the zine authors who put their fics up online early on -- I remember some in S&H and Star Trek fandom did it as early as the '90s.

[(Anonymous)]

That's so shitty and unfair.

They still own the copyright on their work.

[(Anonymous)]

Says nothing there about it being the authors of the fic objecting.

[(Anonymous)]

Usually the loudest objectors to any kind of public fandom documentation, preservation or discussion are not talking about authors copyrights - they are usually talking about fandom ethical codes and how "everyone knows you're not supposed to talk without permission". But even if they were ...well, frankly, any fan who thinks they can put fandom back into the closet using copyright law is in for a rude awakening when they start using that new fangled thing called elec-tr-icity.

What cracks me up is when slash fans talk about "fandom" - there were as many - if not more - gen fans and most of them are not running around the internet trying to persuade one another to Not Talk About Fan Club. While many slash fans had (and still have) good reason for slash to remain hidden, slash fans forget they are part of a larger media/anime fandom community that may think differently from them and may welcome - or at least tolerate - the greater visibility that the net affords. It does, after all, allow us to find our pron so much more easily. And that's all that really matters.

[(Anonymous)]

any fan who thinks they can put fandom back into the closet using copyright law is in for a rude awakening when they start using that new fangled thing called elec-tr-icity

Here's a thought-experiment. In a few years' time it's quite possible that Google will be able to link up pseuds and RL identities - and make them available for all to see on the internet. Does that mean that people in 2014 who are putting up their fics under pen-names should have anticipated this, and would therefore have no grounds for concern in those circumstances?

Usually the loudest objectors to any kind of public fandom documentation, preservation or discussion are not talking about authors copyrights

I am, though.

[(Anonymous)]

No, indeed. Nor if they were asked or not.

[(Anonymous)]

There's a reason for that, though. Slash fandom has always (until Tumblr) been built around an ethos of No One Outside Us Must Ever Know. Anonymity, deniability, no discussion with outsiders ever. (My favorite example is this: http://fanlore.org/wiki/The_Purple_Pages) I think it's easy to forget how much stronger that impulse used to be back in the Before Times.

It's not about the Golden Age, it's about the violation of an ancient oath of silence. Or at least that's how it feels to them.

[(Anonymous)]

Still bullshit, IMO. There's a long time to adjust between the 1970s and the 2000s.

Also, until tumblr? No way. Until the rise of ff.net, established in 1999? Maybe. In some fandoms. By the time LJ was a big deal, slash was totally mainstream in the online discussion/fanfic realm of fandom.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, in 2009, the well-known Surveyfail incident happened, and the very first comment on the actual survey post (now down, couldn't find an archived version... anyone?) was "I'm not sure I want anyone from outside knowing what we do." And in eruthros' superb post criticizing the survey (http://eruthros.dreamwidth.org/273840.html), the FIRST point she makes is "They are outsiders to fandom. They are outsiders to fanfiction. They are outsiders to slash."

So... yeah. "No outsiders" was still the rule as of Obama's first term.

[(Anonymous)]

Makes sense - the desire to keep the tribe "safe" from outsiders is deep and difficult to overcome. But what everyone keeps forgetting - my tribe is not the same as your tribe. And in most people's heads, my tribe is way better than your tribe. Your tribe....is really not OK.

Sometimes I feel like fandom is a closed minded religion full of people preaching The Commandments and looking for any way to hate and shun. Other times it feels like a wild celebration of love where anyone is welcomed. I know which 'tribe' I prefer.

But at least we know we're not all that different or special from the rest of the (tribal) worlds.

[(Anonymous)]

LOL. I love the "ancient oath of silence." That perfectly describes the moral outage, the betrayed emotions and the bewilderment when they find/see fans talking about slash - Their Slash! - in all the wrong places. Without their permission! How dare they!!!!!

But my favorite personal quote came from K/S fandom. This is from the K/S Press a letterzine that started around 1996, near the dawn of net fandom. The person wrote this in 1999.

"There has been some recent discussion in The K/S Press about K/S stories on the Internet. Well, due to a recent job change, I was required to purchase a personal computer. I’m not on the net and of course the first thing I did was to go to the Star Trek sites. I was very amazed and shocked to find out how easy it was to locate “slash” and K/S pages on the web. I did not realize how easy it was for anyone, and I mean anyone, to find out about K/S by simply typing in Star Trek on the search page and going to all the sites. And while I admit that it was a benefit to me, since I downloaded many of the stories to my PC, I was more than a bit dismayed that it was on the web so openly. It left a rather bad taste in my mouth...fact that it is now so openly displayed on the web, for anyone to see, will only add fuel to their fire and perhaps threaten our special fandom....I think that if K/S is to survive, it must remain underground...We don’t need any more nails in the coffin. K/S is not for everyone, so it shouldn’t be available to everyone. But it is and I think that is cause for worry."*

Read more: http://fanlore.org/wiki/Fandom_and_the_Underground

I love the part where she un-ironically mentions how she immediately downloaded all the pron while in the same breath saying we need to stop all the online pron from falling in the wrong hands. And how slash needs to be "Kept Away from Everybody: Except Me and My Friends aka the "Right People"

[(Anonymous)]

Ahahahaha that quote is the best thing ever. SHAMMMMMMME ON EVERYONE WHO POSTED ALL THIS AWESOME PR0NZ I TOTES JUST DOWNLOADED. SHAAAAMMMMMMMEEE.

Also, extra-hot jalepeno chimichangas are "not for everyone" either, but if only those who had been previously inducted into the Extra Hot Jalepeno Chimichanga Fanclub were allowed to eat them, how would anyone develop a taste for them? The logic of these people makes no sense, which is unsurprising since it's just vague attempts to justify their desire to be part of a speshal sooper sekrit club.

[(Anonymous)]

I love the part where she un-ironically mentions how she immediately downloaded all the pron while in the same breath saying we need to stop all the online pron from falling in the wrong hands. And how slash needs to be "Kept Away from Everybody: Except Me and My Friends aka the "Right People"

I think, though, that you're not taking into context the time that this was written in. There was a real fear in fandom circles that you could be subject to legal action. Not so different in some ways from current affairs, except that fanfiction is actually more widely tolerated than before, and there's a lot more discussions about fair use and other possible legal defenses, if it came to that. At the time, though, if the lawyers picked you to come down upon, then it could effectively shut down your wing of fandom.

[(Anonymous)]

SA. Oh I totally took into account the time this was written (1999). It stood out even then when we read it in our copies of K/S Press and shook our heads in amusement. Mainly because she raced to download the pron even while criticizing the ability to download the pron. Such delicious hypocrisy. Plus, this was K/S - a fandom that had weathered many a "OMG they're coming to take us awaaaaay!" panics. If you were still a K/Ser by 2000 you had seen it all, done it all, and were going to do it all again and again. We were (and still are) a hardy folk.