[ SECRET POST #2686 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2686 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 059 secrets from Secret Submission Post #384.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: Controversial opinions

[(Anonymous)]

But I don't think that's what people mean. They mean that if you're on welfare and have five kids, you probably shouldn't have another kid you can't take care of. As for not getting pregnant... well, you may have to abstain. Yes, I realize this isn't an issue for people in abusive relationships, or rape victims, etc. I also think there's the issue of judging another person's circumstances when you don't know a thing about them. But I do see where they're coming from, in principle.

Re: Controversial opinions

[(Anonymous)]

*OPTION for people, not issue...

Re: Controversial opinions

[fingalsanteater]

Oh sure, I see where they are coming from "in principle," and it's part of the "principle" that I'm fundamentally opposed to. I find dictating someone's reproductive rights to based on their social standing or income level to be morally reprehensible.

Re: Controversial opinions

[(Anonymous)]

Why is reproduction a "right" to you? Having children is, quite literally, putting a helpless person into a situation without their consent, a situation from which they won't be able to remove themselves for many years. I'd think making sure people don't abuse their "right" to make babies would be an important part of civilisation.

[(Anonymous)]

It'a also putting further demands on a planet that really, REALLY cannot afford to have more human beings on it at this point, and in fact needs to reduce the number it's already got substantially. Nobody wants to talk about that or is willing to discuss curtailing those precious "rights" in any way, even if it means the eventual extinction of our species and many others.

[(Anonymous)]

Please start your own thread for your money and/or planet saving opinions. This is quite complicated enough already.

[diet_poison]

The right not to have kids and the right to have kids are actually fundamentally pretty different imo. Though at the core they both rely on the same basic principle: once a kid enters someone's life, they become a huge priority, and that kid has a RIGHT to be in a situation where s/he isn't experiencing abuse, neglect, starvation, etc.

That's how I look at it, anyway. People have the right to decide whether they can take on that responsibility, but they don't have the right to be in possession of a being that is suffering negative consequences just because they wanted it to exist for them (I mean severe negative consequences, not mild ones). In fact providing access to contraception is an important tool in making sure people don't have kids before they are ready to do so.

To sum up my thoughts in another way: having kids is ABOUT THE KIDS, not about the parents. If you just want a kid for yourself, to live vicariously through or to make you feel validated or for whatever reason, in MY OPINION you are having a kid for the wrong reasons and kids deserve to be had for the right reasons.

[diet_poison]

We don't disagree on that.

Re: Controversial opinions

[dethtoll]

Unfortunately that's not a road you want to start going down. I agree with you that certain people shouldn't be having kids, but where do we draw the line? Neutering rednecks?

Re: Controversial opinions

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not even talking law though? Just that I think people shouldn't. As in, I think it's common sense not to. I have no way to stop people from having kids and if I had enough power to actually do stop anyone, I'd rather use it to improve schools/health care/food availability.

Re: Controversial opinions

[dethtoll]

Okay, fair enough. I jumped to a conclusion there, sorry. :)

Re: Controversial opinions

[fingalsanteater]

A reproductive right is being given the freedom to choose to have children or not, no matter my income level, education level, social class, race, ethnicity, etc.

I think you are overly concerned with money, for one thing. Having money doesn't always make a better home life. In fact, I would say that beyond the ability to provide the basic necessities, having money has no bearing on one's ability to raise children. Children born to parents who can "afford" them can still be placed without their consent in a bad situation from which they can't remove themselves.

And, your line about a baby being a helpless person placed in a situation without its consent is naive bullshit. I mean, yeah, technically, it's true.

But, you are essentially advocating governmental checks reproduction because a baby can't consent to being born, which wrests the ability to choose to reproduce out of the hands of the individual and into the many hands of bureaucracy since a baby can NEVER consent to bring born.

Re: Controversial opinions

[(Anonymous)]

Uhm, if you can afford the basic necessities, you CAN afford a child. I said you shouldn't have children if you can't afford them. I never said you had to be rich. That's your interpretation. And I know rich people can suck as parents just as much as anyone else, thanks.

No. I never said anything about law or government. I said "I think you shouldn't". You are the one who started in with rights. You mentioned the rights of the parents, so I countered with the rights of the child.

Re: Controversial opinions

[fingalsanteater]

Children are afforded rights, and there are organizations whose job it is to protect children. Children can never give consent to be born, which is why we must give the rights to choose to reproduce to their parents.

Like I said, I agree with the principle that children should be taken care of, but the suggestion that people should wait until they can "afford" children is not a suggestion that has any basis in reality. I don't believe in curtailing the reproductive liberty of anyone.

Re: Controversial opinions

[(Anonymous)]

da

I find the well-being of children to be more important than anyone's right to have them. I'm not the OP who said poor people shouldn't have kids or whatever, but yes, I think it's irresponsible to continue to have kids that you can't take care of.

You might have the right to have kids, but you don't have the right to keep them if you can't take care of them. (says someone who has done foster care for kids in relevant situations)

Re: Controversial opinions

[(Anonymous)]

The thing that bothers me about the current system is... yes, kids will get taken away if they're neglected or abused, but by the time that happens, they've already been neglected or abused. You can't just erase those experiences and pretend they never happened, that's the kind of stuff that can fuck people up for life.

I don't know. If I had to make a choice, I'd much rather that someone didn't get to have kids than have any kids suffer neglect or abuse. No child deserves that.

Re: Controversial opinions

[(Anonymous)]

Would you be okay with that meaning that certain groups didn't get to have kids not because they would be unfit parents but because they were simply considered "undesirable?"

Re: Controversial opinions

[diet_poison]

"Certain groups" don't singlehandedly cause abuse and neglect, anon. People who are abusive and neglectful - i.e. not fit to be parents - can be found everywhere, in every demographic.

Re: Controversial opinions

[(Anonymous)]

Right, but when society in general starts talking about who is or isn't fit to be parents, the fitness of certain groups has a disturbing tendency to come up.

In the US, we have forcibly sterilized African-American women. At present, African-American women happen to be some of the poorest people in the US. Can you then see how this conversation might make some of us profoundly uncomfortable?

Re: Controversial opinions

[(Anonymous)]

'Forcibly sterilized' what? Who the hell is forcibly sterilizing anyone? I find that questionable, since black families tend to have a ton of children. Hell, my boyfriend's mother has seven and she's barely in her 40's, and every single one of them has different fathers. (And the only father that's actually in their child's lives is the father that is Latino, the other fathers are black)