fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2704 ]

[ SECRET POST #2704 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2704 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 022 secrets from Secret Submission Post #386.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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I've said this before and I'll say this again, but I'm absolutely shocked at the small number of non-con fics that this movie has spawned, because the source material makes it seem...not far fetched from reality. Maybe it didn't happen, but it could've, very easily, and no one would've been around to stop it. (And frankly, Rumlow was giving Bucky so damn questionable looks.)

Edited (I accidentally a word) 2014-05-30 03:27 (UTC)

To be fair, the fics that ARE in the Rumlow/Bucky tag on Ao3 are all disturbing as hell and incredibly well-written.

~~And I'm currently working on a fic that's going to eventually cover all the horrific ways he was abused, including sexually, because I think it needs to exist.~~

I'm sure if there were Rumlow/Bucky fics on AO3 they would be excellent and dirty-bad-wrong and disgusting just as they should be. (Not that I would read any such fic, though....

....

....)

~~You just reminded me I haven't checked the Cap section for a few days. Thanks for that.... And any future fic you might write.~~

There are three or four. Including one with the excellent line "Rumlow breaks entire teams in one him" o.O;

Hee! I promised myself that I wouldn't write Bucky fic until we knew what happened to him. Two months later I have a finished 20k word fic and another one in the works that's likely going to hit 40-50k)

I don't remember that particular line... Or wouldn't, even had I read these fics. But obviously I did not. Obviously.

Ugh, I almost want every Cap fic to be 40 or 50k, if it wasn't for the fact I would literally do nothing else. Bless you.

:D It makes me feel a bit weird that I remember it, to be honest.

I would feel better about my fics if the long ones didn't all involve horrible torture, PTSD and emotional baggage, regardless of fandom. ~~Plus I've realized I have no idea how to give the current one a happy ending. Like…no idea whatsoever.~~ But thank you for the blessing! <3

Okay, well, not much I can say about you needing to include torture in every fandom, but hey, if that does it for you that's alright! Plenty of people are in the same boat. And in the case of Winter Soldier, imo it would be worse if you ignored those issues entirely. Not only would it be unrealistic, it would be totally unbelievable to the point of (probably) ruining the fic. Bucky is who he is today because of the things he's been through, I see nothing wrong with exploring that.

Well, I only really write for two fandoms. One involves Bucky and the other a kid who was beaten to death with a tire iron and later resurrected (still buried) and then seduced by a woman obsessed with his father-figure. I have screwed up fandoms.

I want to believe that Hydra was so obsessed with their aims and goals, and treasured their asset so much that the only thing they ever told him to do was kill people (which would be bad enough). However, I don't have nearly enough faith in humanity to believe that not once in 70 years did some bastard use him to act out whatever horrific power fantasies lead people to want to rule the world. I can't believe that there was nobody who got off/got a rush from the idea that their ultimate weapon will also do anything they wanted.

What's the second fandom, out of curiosity? (If you don't mind me asking.) That is indeed fucked up.

Yea...as messed up as it is to say, it might be slightly easier for Bucky to deal with just having killed people against his will (which is a terrible, dumb sentence, but...) than having to remember being raped in addition (Though, I mean...they already took his memories, and his free-will, and...well, his life really, so I guess at that point...idek how you would manage to go on knowing any of that). Hydra aren't exactly saints, and 70 years is a long time; he must've had so, so many handlers and different hydra agents to work with.

Pre-reboot DC Comics. Specifically the second Robin, Jason Todd. And yeah, it's really fucked up.

A lot of MCU Bucky discussions end with "which is a terrible sentence", I find. Usually when discussing what would be worst for him. Was in a conversation a few weeks ago where a few people reached the conclusion that it might be better to just mercy-kill him instead of letting him remember everything (I disagree, but I do see why that might be argued). Apparently the woman who typed it first started tearing up while she was. :(

OH, Jason, duhhhhhhhh. I should've noticed that and it even sounded familiar but it didn't hit me. Poor Jason. What happened to him was extremely fucked up and the Batfamily can be massive dicks in how they treat him.

Ugh...I remember Bucky wanting to die when Steve used the cube to give his memories back, so maybe he would want that, but...yea, he obviously wasn't in a great place right then and things hadn't had time to settle, he hadn't had any time to process his thoughts and feelings or grieve for what had been done to him. I think MCU Bucky will eventually find something to live for, and he'll be glad he's alive.

the Batfamily can be massive dicks in how they treat him.

The sad thing is that the fics I've written on him were initially trying to FIX exactly that. I don't think any of my readers believe me anymore. ^^;

I think MCU Bucky will eventually find something to live for

Hope so. Because while Sebastian Stan has turned acting self-hating characters into a goddamn art form, I don't want that for Bucky. So, yeah. Bucky better find something to live for. Eventually for himself, but I would accept "to prevent Steve from having to make sad golden retriever eyes" initially. (And if Steve wants to forget about Erskine's request that he remain a good person for a few months, and go on vengeful killing spree of Hydra agents with Bucky? I would cheer even as my heart broke for both of them)

*looks at this thread and the one below it* Damn. We've talked a long time. :D

Oh man, Jason needs that fix baddddddd. Poor guy. I haven't read too many of the DC comics yet, and only a short mini-series that focused completely on him, but he's brought up so much as a cautionary tale and I feel like he doesn't deserve it. Definitely not to the extent it happens.

Well, Steve DID tell Peggy he would kill or capture every Hydra agent that he came across. Can't remember the exact line, but he went from, "I don't want to kill anyone, I just hate bullies" to "Those fuckers hurt Bucky, they're going down". So it wouldn't be entirely OOC I think.

...You're the anon I talked to a couple days ago about the comics, right? I feel like I've talked you at least several times, for a long, long time. We have a problem.

I will never forgive the writers/editors that decided what Batfamily's reactions to the entire Jason thing would be. Even Dick, the absolute king of not giving up on anyone ~~but himself~~ only tried to reach out once. (Granted, that was about the same time someone decided Dick would kick one of his closest friends in the face during the darkest point in his life. I may hate the reboot, but there were some damn stupid things that happened before it, too.)

"Those fuckers hurt Bucky, they're going down".

That 180 was so sad. :( And it may not be OOC, but it would still break my heart to watch it happen again. Steve is trying to be a good person by any decade's standards, and it would be heartbreaking to see him off carving a path of destruction through everyone from Hydra planners to their lab technicians. In my opinion. But I would still cheer.

...You're the anon I talked to a couple days ago about the comics, right?

If you mean the anon that tore apart the internet until she found the setup for Bucky beating up a bunch of people in a bar, then yes. :p

...I blame Ed Brubaker and Sebastian Stan (and goddamn Markus and McFeeley for creating that thrice-damned chair) for my part of the problem. They share equal guilt in the fact that my fangirl levels have hit critical levels after a good 2 years of nice, calm enjoyment.

It seems like every comic is always going to have bad periods. There are so many different writers who handle the characters...it's bound to lead to some painfully OOC or frustrating moments.

Who wouldn't, man? Who wouldn't. Though...IDK, maybe he'll 'be the better man' and spare them, but movie!verse Steve at least doesn't seem to mind killing. (Not saying he enjoys it or anything, mind.)

Hahaha, yes, good. I thought so! Once again I'm going to say you should get an account so I can recognize you more easily, but of course no pressure. :p

Well...I'd say that maybe the fangirl levels will lower a bit, but today they announced the release date for the movie, and once the dvd comes out we'll have special features and commentary and all kinds of goodies, so I doubt it.

Re: Bit OT. Ok, lot OT.

(Anonymous) - 2014-05-31 00:37 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Bit OT. Ok, lot OT.

elaminator - 2014-05-31 00:44 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Bit OT. Ok, lot OT.

(Anonymous) - 2014-05-31 01:26 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Bit OT. Ok, lot OT.

elaminator - 2014-05-31 01:35 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Bit OT. Ok, lot OT.

(Anonymous) - 2014-05-31 01:55 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Bit OT. Ok, lot OT.

elaminator - 2014-05-31 02:28 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Bit OT. Ok, lot OT.

(Anonymous) - 2014-05-31 02:39 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Bit OT. Ok, lot OT.

elaminator - 2014-05-31 03:39 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Bit OT. Ok, lot OT.

(Anonymous) - 2014-05-31 07:41 (UTC) - Expand

I think the lack of non-con fics is because the idea of writing them makes a lot of people uncomfortable, even if it's just fiction, as proven by this thread. I've been thinking of writing one, but I'm not quite sure I could.

In a way I can see that (I know I couldn't write it, even if I wasn't a terrible author) and it makes perfect sense to me, except... Fandom loves non-con. It's kind of everywhere, even if you don't want to see it. So this just seemed an odd place for people to withhold their interest in it or whatever, but... I do feel like maybe people are so preoccupied with Steve/Bucky that they just write that instead, especially if they get to make him angst then make him happy again. Anyone and everyone should want Bucky to be happy at this point.

Non-con with a guy that knows what he's doing is different, I think, than non-con with what is basically a puppet. There's no biting or clawing or fighting back with the Winter Soldier. There's just…acceptance. I feel like they could beat him, cut him open and fuck him with one of Rumlow's painsticks, and he'd just take it all if that's what he was told to do.

Which is much more horrifying that standard non-con.

(I personally am rather bemused that the kink for the fandom seems to be metal arm fisting. Can't say that's what I was expecting)

I feel like they could beat him, cut him open and fuck him with one of Rumlow's painsticks, and he'd just take it all if that's what he was told to do.

...Well...you have a point because I cringed reading this. On one hand I can see how people could think, "At least he's not fully aware of what's going on", but...that fact itself is terrifying, and it's not like he wouldn't eventually become aware of it when he got his memories back. Holy fuck this canon is screwed up.

(I know! I feel like half the porn I've seen has included metal fisting. This was not what I expected either, but the metal arm IS hot. I'm not a huge fisting fan myself, but I get the fascination with the arm.)

"At least he's not fully aware of what's going on",

I'm not sure he's not aware, though. He both screams in pain when Steve breaks his arm, and exhibits genuine fear when he's pinned. Which means, regardless of what he forgets he's aware in the moment.

The chair, as well. Sure, he's somewhat bestial in his reactions, but there's no reason for him to be breathing that hard BEFORE the damnable thing turns on, unless he knows it's going to hurt him. He's also obviously used to the routine, given that he took the bite block as soon as it was presented.

Holy fuck this canon is screwed up.

The Winter Soldier part of it is basically psychological horror, when you get down to it.

Oh no, I didn't mean he wasn't aware at all, because obviously he still showed fear and pain and even a sense of longing when he realized someone knew who he was, more like...he wouldn't completely realize how fucking terrible everything he was going through was because for him it would be all he knew. It would just be another thing he had to take and another order he would have to obey. He probably wouldn't understand (to the extent someone who wasn't brainwashed would) 'this is wrong'. (I don't think I'm articulating myself well.)

Ah. Ok. I have actually heard the "he's just an empty shell; why do you feel bad about things done to him?" argument. It hurts me even more than the "he's a villain and willfully evil" thing, and I was afraid you were making it.

I get you. He doesn't fight back because he doesn't actually comprehend that he can. In order to be able to use him the one thing Hydra had to guarantee is that the Soldier will always come back. Which means they had to make sure he would never, ever fight them.

LIke I said, psychological horror. :(

I have actually heard the "he's just an empty shell; why do you feel bad about things done to him?" argument. It hurts me even more than the "he's a villain and willfully evil" thing, and I was afraid you were making it.

No no no no no, never in a million years, never. That's awful. Sorry for leading you to that assumption! I'm not even sure how a person COULD think that.

In order to be able to use him the one thing Hydra had to guarantee is that the Soldier will always come back. Which means they had to make sure he would never, ever fight them.

Yea, exactly. At the start Bucky rails against them, so they wipe his memory and find ways to break and brainwash him so he'll be a timid little soldier. Poor Bucky...

So much psychological horror.

People believe all sorts of crazy shit about the Winter Soldier. There's the fun subset of individuals that think Loki is completely forgivable for everything he's done and none of it was his fault, but think that the Winter Soldier is a complicit, willing party. Think what you like about Loki, but that anyone could hold those two beliefs simultaneously is baffling to me.

Comic Bucky killed and injured a huge amount of his captors when they first took him, despite only having one arm. I like to believe that MCU!Bucky got the small mercy of getting to do the same before they destroyed his mind. ...I ignore that comic!Bucky was a master of hand-to-hand combat arts before he became the Winter Soldier, whereas MCU!Bucky was mostly a sniper.

I have never seen these people, and hope I never do. There would be much anger. At this point in the MCU, I don't see how Loki can be forgiven; even if they give him another redemption arc I feel like it will come off as hollow. Loki is always going to screw things up and betray the people he trusts; he loves the power and mischief too much. Bucky, however, is at his core a good person who's done some not great things (during the war, I imagine), then had everything stripped away from him and was forced to do even worse things. While he'll feel massive amounts of guilt over that later, that shit isn't on him, it's on Hydra. He isn't the one at fault here, he's a victim. People are dumb.

D'aww, I hope he did as well. (I'm saying d'aww over the thought of Bucky getting to kill people, this is what I've become. Whatever, he deserves it.)

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