fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2714 ]

[ SECRET POST #2714 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2714 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 071 secrets from Secret Submission Post #388.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
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Er, I know this is going to sound like the obvious question, but how much time have you been spending on tumblr? Most if not all of those things are not things I've ever heard outside of tumblr and I don't think they're part of mainstream feminist ideology.

Tbh this. I see no reason to not call oneself a feminist if one actually sympathizes with feminism as an ideology. It's like not calling oneself a Christian because of Westboro Baptist Church. Or not calling oneself an atheist because of Stalin.

They may not be mainstream BUT they are a part of the feminist movement. And it seems many feminists choose to just ignore that portion instead of telling them they are fucking scumbags and making them stop being scumbags.

Why do you think it's the feminists' responsibility to do that? I don't know, it's like saying that it's the responsibility of LGBT+ to stop the "straight people are evil" folks. They may both be calling themselves feminist/LGBT+, but their causes are so different they're basically two different movements.

Additionally, as long as the ideology itself isn't hurtful, no individual adept of the ideology in question should be held accountable for the actions of some other people. Responsibility for these things isn't shareable.

Considering one of the biggest feminist shitstorms of late is how, the entire population of men should somehow stop that small percentage (3-4%) that are rapists, feminists can find a way. OR they can go ahead and admit that it is not the responsibility of a group to manage and control the assholes in that group.

Or hey, maybe they can start a trending topic on twitter about how Not All Feminists are like that.

I agree this trend is hypocritical. As long as we are talking feminists who participate in the "men should stop rape" campaigns, I'm with you.

Eh, actually I may just have a huge problem with group mentalities. Never really got into all this common goals thing.

I was under the impression that the point of the "men should stop rape" thing was that men who rape or perpetuate rape culture should, you know, stop doing that. And people in general should speak up more; right now, it's mostly women speaking up about rape.

(My personal take is that the most important factor is parents teaching their kids not to be assholes, but that's a tangent.)

Yeah see, what is rape culture? Because as far as I know, rape in the US culture is probably the most evil thing someone can do. Look at TV shows, a character could murder hundreds of people but meh. If they rape someone? *MAN THE PITCHFORKS*

Are there groups of people who may try to cover up rape/make it seem like it is not as bad as it is [Stubenville]? Yes. But there are also groups of people who try to cover up a murder depending on who the murderer or cannibalism. And those people are seen by the rest of the nations as terrible, terrible people.

The only other thing I can think of are people complaining about 'rape jokes' and how they encourage rapists. And that is one the dumbest things I have heard.

Rape jokes make me really uncomfortable and they normalize something that isn't acceptable. For the record, I'm not fond of murder jokes either. But murder is much more universally decried than rape, ime. Certainly on parts of the internet there's a huge focus on rape, but also on other parts of the internet there are people literally rationalizing rape. and culture offline is another thing too.

Okay, they make you uncomfortable. So what? There are rape survivors who use rape jokes to help them get over their trauma (just like cancer survivors or disaster survivors). And the idea that rape jokes normalize rape is asinine. That is the same argument people use about video games causing violence. And if a virtual murder simulator doesn't cause violence, a joke won't cause someone to rape. Nor will it normalize it.

And I wasn't even talking about the internet. In the US, rape is despised. It is socially and politically despised.

Interestingly, 99% of the people I've ever heard make rape jokes are guys. Maybe some have been rape survivors, but probably not most.

Unfortunately I don't have a particular anecdote that I remember but I know some people are really offended by them and I doubt all survivors are okay with them. I do not think I'd be if I were one. I am kind of interested in seeing who uses them to cope with trauma, though. I've never heard of that.

In the US, rape is despised.

I would like to live in your version of the US.

And some rape survivors (like this one) are made anxious, made afraid, and silenced by rape jokes, so cut the bullshit.

There's a lot of lip service paid to how horrible rape and rapists are... until the rapists happen to be 'desirable' members of society, like a famous director or a bunch of teenager jocks. Then they close ranks protectively around the rapists and excuse them and shun the victims.

Yeah, you very obviously have no idea what people are talking about when they refer to rape culture. Maybe do some reading.

Explain it to me since you know allll about it.

Here's the problem, though, and this is what's important:

THE "RAPE IS A SPECIAL KIND OF EVIL" TROPE PERPETUATES RAPE CULTURE

Because when people want to excuse rape, they don't (ever) say "rape is okay." They say "Well, that wasn't really rape."

Because Rape Is A Special Kind Of Evil, and rapists are all evil, unrepentant monsters. We've been told this a million times.

Therefore, if someone you know and like is accused of rape, then it must not be true. It must not have really been rape, because this person isn't an evil unrepentant monster. And that's where the excuses come in.

When we require monsterhood for rape, we guarantee that people will not see rape.

I have never thought about it this way and this is a really interesting take.

Not really. The "men should stop rape" movement as I saw it is mostly about men working to dismantle rape culture regardless of whether they themselves perpetuate it.

Which is a good thing to call for, mind, but I don't really see why it should be directed at men specifically or support hostility towards men. Just as you can't treat feminists as a monolith, you can't treat men as a monolith (even more so, actually, because "men" isn't an ideology).

I am aware that of the two cases, one calls for action far more urgently (you can't really compare rape to a bunch of people's spewing hateful toxic bullshit), but the logic is the same. If one treats radfems as a fringe group they are in no way responsible for, they don't get to turn around and say "all men should..."

First of all I both agree and disagree with the first bit. I think some of these people are operating on the assumption that all women are already working on dismantling rape culture, so men should step it up; this is obviously incorrect as many if not most women also don't know/care about rape culture. As for the last bit, I'm confused as to why their hypocrisy/behavior suddenly makes me or other level-headed feminists more responsible for them than we otherwise would have been.

It doesn't?? I was talking specifically about the hypocritical part of the group. If I have any problems with feminism as a movement, they are probably purely ideology-related OR have to do with my dislike of group mentalities of any kind. By no means am I saying that all feminists are responsible for anything. Maybe that wasn't clear enough, in which case my apologies.

ah, no worries :)

What is it that you want us to do? Go spend time on tumblr just to tell off a bunch of teenagers who are notorious for being toxic and won't listen anyway? Every group has its fringe members. This isn't a surprise. I'm kind of tired of people saying that we should put so much more energy into decrying radfems (including tumblr!radfems) instead of realizing that hey, feminism (just like Christianity, just like Islam, just like nerd-dom and fandom and any given fandom, or just like any other ideology) isn't a monolith.

Edited 2014-06-09 00:03 (UTC)

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[ SECRET POST #2714 ]

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