fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2718 ]

[ SECRET POST #2718 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2718 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Mayim Bialik]

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[Pacific Rim]

Notes:

Might be another 12 am day. Response time will be slow, sorry.

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 016 secrets from Secret Submission Post #388.
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I mean, I think critical thinking should be a requirement for graduate programs, yes.

And if someone has critical thinking skills and is able to evaluate studies (which lmao a graduate student in the sciences needs to be able to do), then they should see how the anti-vax arguments are bullshit.

I'll go one further and say critical thinking should be a requirement for life. Think how much Facebook feeds would improve if one's friends, family and high school classmates would quit posting crap they could've looked up on snopes.com...

Just to play devil's advocate- critical thinking is about coming up with your own opinions by looking at a source from different angles, so your argument (that she should have a different opinion by virtue of developing critical thinking skills) doesn't make sense.

Er, it's not just about looking at something "from different angles", though. It's the "critical" part that's missing here. Thinking outside the box =/= critical thinking. Questioning, researching and using credible sources to support your opinions is.

Look, though, if you apply critical thought to something then by virtue of questioning it, you may not come to the same conclusion as everyone else.

that's not how hard sciences work.

I mean yeah if there isn't enough information about something. But if there is? Then anyone who does their research will come to the same basic conclusion. Otherwise, there's a disconnect somewhere - they didn't research the same thing (which means at least one of them has done an incomplete investigation) or one of them is being illogical in their application of said research.

I get that.

(reply from suspended user)

No, the science is quite clear that it's unrelated to vaccines.

I'm seconding the other anon. We might have several theories as to what causes Autism, but scientists (at least credible ones) are pretty damn sure that vaccines do not cause it.

(reply from suspended user)

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2014-06-13 20:35 (UTC) - Expand

Vaccines aren't insidious! The whole autism connection was made by one researcher and one bad study. There is NO connection! How do you people not get this?

(reply from suspended user)

Aren't we talking about the vaccine side of the debate though? Not the autism side.

That's possible, but if this critical thought that's being applied manages to exclude the scientific method and reputable studies in favor of "I heard vaccines give your kids autism!", then it's not very critical after all and there is absolutely no sense in pretending that the two conclusions are of equal merit.

I mean, look. If I said I'd thought about it really critically and came to the conclusion that yes, I can jump off the Empire State building, flap my arms energetically and fly away, is my critical thinking as sound as someone who says no, I'm going to plummet to my death because arm-flapping will not provide an adequate amount of lift to keep me from falling? Of course it isn't. It doesn't matter that we both applied critical thinking (though again, a reasonable person is going to question just how critical my thinking was) and reached different conclusions, my conclusion is still rubbish.

I would assume that (if she's anti-vaccine, which I've not heard before) it has nothing to do with a "lack of critical thinking skills" and ability "to evaluate studies" and everything to do with religion.

But I'm LMAO at the idea that everyone above a certain level of education has to have a certain set of beliefs. Because no. People believe - or don't believe - in a shocking variety of things, and it rarely seems to have anything to do with education level or SCIENCE.

I would assume that (if she's anti-vaccine, which I've not heard before) it has nothing to do with a "lack of critical thinking skills" and ability "to evaluate studies" and everything to do with religion./

Sorry to burst your bubble but no, absolutely not. The Orthodox Jewish community is like pretty much all Jewish communities: what the doctor says is gold (literally every commandment we have can be broken for medical reasons). My friends at school were all vaccinated, horrified that I wasn't, and I even knew a few kids who had parents that were doctors that would just bring the vaccine home and inoculate the kids there. So yeah, religious fundamentalists, yes, anti-vaxxers, not in the least.

Is she Orthodox Jewish?

And slightly randomly: Just because a commandment CAN be broken for medical reasons, does it mean that everyone would be reasonable enough to do it? Are there more/less strict "sects" (for lack of knowing the right term)?

She is Orthodox, yes. She's what we call a Baal Teshuvah, a Jewish person raised secular and choosing to become much more religious as an adult.

I can't answer your question about whether there are more strict sects because I'm honestly not familiar with all of them, but my community was super-strict (like, don't get seen wearing jeans strict, unless you want a shunning), and they unquestioningly followed the rule about breaking the commandments to save a life. You could be watching the most Orthodox congregation in the world holding a Sabbath service, and a little old lady faints or a kid has a fever or any number of conditions, and within ten seconds flat the ceremony will stop, somebody will grab a phone for 911, call an ambulance or get their keys and drive for the hospital like a bat out of hell, and the whole congregation will stand there worrying and offering assistance until the crisis has passed. And if they missed the rituals, so be it. Life if more important.

(I have had my share of problems with the Orthodox, but I've always admired that they are so sure of their beliefs that they can go against their beliefs with a perfectly clear conscience if necessary.)

Thanks for the ~~bookmark! info!~~

Edited (The bookmark thing was weird... and related to something else entirely!) 2014-06-13 03:02 (UTC)

Orthodox here, and nopity nope there is NO commandment against vaccinating. In fact, already thousands of years ago rabbis identified a passage in the Torah that basically "gives permission for a doctor to heal" (the idea being refuting the way of thinking that illnesses are from God and thus should be silently tolerated).

As anon said, preserving human life is one of the primary commands, and in most cases will trump everything else.
There are individuals who may choose not to seek medical attention if it goes against other religious laws, but these people are actually not following the laws properly because you're supposed to put life above all. So this is them personally messing up, and not a tenet of Judaism.

Gotcha! Thanks for the info!

("Religion" is the number one reason that people don't get their kids vaccinated in my state. It's always interesting to hear someone in the know's opinion on that.)

//nod
Just remember that Christianity and Judaism are massively, massively different on many fronts.
I mean tbh, I can't even fathom what kind of religious anti-vaccine argument there could possibly be. Why do they say that you're not allowed to vaccinate? Do they not go to doctors at all?

(no subject)

crunchysunrises - 2014-06-13 02:51 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

ketita - 2014-06-13 03:22 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

truxillogical - 2014-06-13 03:12 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

ketita - 2014-06-13 03:21 (UTC) - Expand

Depends on the religion - but most aren't against vaccines.

But yeah, expecting everyone to share a set of beliefs - regardless of education, religion, or any other single factor - is a bit silly.

In my state, "religion" is the number one reason that people don't vaccinate their kids. How truthful that is, I don't know. But it's definitely conditioned me to say, "Right. Religion," and move on.

Really? I mean it sounds logical because so many religious nuts homeschool but from what I understand most of the anti-vaxxers are pretty liberal (I say this as an avowed liberal). Regardless they're all infuriatingly ignorant and smug.

Oh no, no, no. My state has mandatory vaccination laws for kids entering public school. There are about three recognized exceptions, religious being one of them. They're filling out those forms so that they can put their kids in public school without vaccinating them. (How many of them actually believe is probably a vastly different matter.)

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