[ SECRET POST #333 ]

[shahni.livejournal.com]

⌈ Secret Post #333 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

- NAME THAT FANDOM IS THE FIRST COMMENT, PLEASE! ♥ And also repeats n'stuff. :3
- AUGH WE'RE HITTING NEARLY 50 SECRETS PER POST. ._.; You guys rock. ♥

Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 151 secrets from Secret Submission Post #048.
Secrets Not Posted: 0 broken links, 0 not!secrets, 0 not!fandom. -- becausemakingtheseinthemiddleofthenightmakesmelazy^^;
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Wednesday, December 5th, 2007.
Current Secret Submission Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

#9

[ex-monarchy375.livejournal.com]

#9, are you kidding me? This is just pathetic. I can't defend Albel/Nel, because I don't get it either, but...what the flying hell.

First off all, take into consideration the time period Elicoor II is at in the game. 17th Century Earth. You ever seen Louis XIV (http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/history/virtual/portrait/louis14.jpg)? How about this (http://www.columbia.edu/itc/barnard/theater/kirkland/3136/17th%20Century%20Gallery/pages/1671.2.htm)? Or this (http://www.columbia.edu/itc/barnard/theater/kirkland/3136/17th%20Century%20Gallery/pages/1631.2.htm)? By our standards, these guys all look like they're TTLY FLAMING OMG!1 But guess what? Louis XIV was straight as an arrow. Fashion changes over time. Therefore, saying that he wears a skirt in the 17th century doesn't prove a damn thing about his sexuality. If they looked at us, they'd think we looked weird too.

Second off, I'm pretty sure I saw his ass in-game. There is no thong. There is no underwear, period. Straight guys go commando too.

Third off, the hair, the "panty hose"? Go on Google, look up bands like Ratt, Poison, Motley Crue, Nitro--and hey, what is this? They all have really fluffy hair, some wear bellyshirts, some wear pantyhose, and they wear makeup? O LAWDY, THEY MUST BE GAY. Wrong again! (Unless you're looking at the lead singer of King Cobra, because he decided he wanted to be a woman.) All of these bands had TONS of female groupies. They were KNOWN for having sex with a massive amount of girls. Hell, even if you look at early Mick Jagger! While he didn't wear makeup, he wore bellyshirts. But Mick Jagger is about as far from gay as it gets. Many of those men have a feminine shape as well!

So yes, heterosexual males WOULD dress like that willingly.

"Obsession with the male protagonist"? I hate to break it to you, but SO3 is a game that you control. (Did you actually play it?) You can go throughout the entire game and talk to Albel maybe...five times. About the whole "Do you hate me?" thing? Fayt directly mocked Albel, and it probably appears to Albel that Fayt is the leader of this group. (I'd say he is as well.) Therefore why would he go to someone who isn't important instead of going straight to the leader?

If you talk to Albel outside one of the carts in Peterny on the west when he asks you why you think Airyglyph lost the war? Choose the first answer, and Albel will ask Fayt how anyone can be happy if the woman they love is starving. While he could've easily said "HEY I LIKE MANSEX PLEASE LET ME STICK MY ASS OUT YEAH BABY YEAH", he didn't. That proves that either a) Albel is versed in conventional love and has no interest at all in it or b) he likes girls.

Daddy issues? Not so much. Albel has issues with himself, not with his father. He wants to become stronger because he killed his father. And to be honest, I fail to see what feeling guilty about your own stupidity getting your father has anything to do with being gay.

"Half-assed attempt at masculinity"? HE DOESN'T HAVE AN ARM UNDER THERE. He's in a war, he uses that as a weapon. He didn't put that on singing that "I'LL MAKE A MAN OUT OF YOO" song from Mulan. I have far less of a problem with this "half-assed attempt at masculinity" than morons writing Albel jacking off insertguyhere with his left hand. Since he uh, doesn't have one. It's like putting a penis through a cheese grater. AND PEOPLE LIKE THIS. -14 for humanity.

Not everyone in Airyglyph is dressed in full armor either. Also, Albel himself says that he wouldn't even be in Airyglyph if he wasn't required to fulfill a duty; he was born, raised, and wants to return to Kirlsa. That's a lot less cold.

Now that I'm done with that, what the hell gives you the idea that Nel is a lesbian? She has short hair? She kicks ass? She has an attitude? She has friends that are girls? Woops, I have friends that are girls too! If I didn't see my best female friend for a long time I'd probably give her a hug too. Not because I want to get hot boobie action, but because I care about her. Do you not hug your friends? :'D Aw. How sad.

It's pretty sad how you can't get past appearances and stereotypes.

Re: #9

[(Anonymous)]

Not the OP, but, you know, you can scream about how these characters aren't gay until you're blue in the face, but the truth is there's no solid proof they're straight either.

Re: #9

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think that the commenter was saying that Albel declaring Albel's sexuality, fans have the right to choose whom they pair him up with. I think their problem with the secret is that it neglects other pairings with Albel that are heterosexual.

Re: #9

[ex-monarchy375.livejournal.com]

There's no proof they're gay either. So "OMG THERE IS NO WAY THIS GUY IS STRAIGHT" is just as wrong. :D

Re: #9

[(Anonymous)]

Not the secret maker, but wow. Take a deep breath and go outside for a bit.

Re: #9

[ex-monarchy375.livejournal.com]

Maybe the OP should too before throwing a bitchfit.

Re: #9

[(Anonymous)]

I see just one bitchfit happening here, lady, and it ain't the OP throwing it. They make a slightly silly secret and you wig out and post a huge-ass exposition about your analysis of a fictional character filled with TEH ANGRIES!!!

At the end of the day, whatever that guy's name is will still be fictional. I'm sorry. :'(

Re: #9

[(Anonymous)]

I have no reaction to the secret itself but: writing a long (apparently by your standards) and logical argument != having a hissyfit.

Re: #9

[ex-monarchy375.livejournal.com]

[continued] The 17th century was before Tinky Winky. Purple wasn't even RECOGNIZED with homosexuals, it was used to distinguish royalty, and highly valued. Only incredibly important people were allowed to wear purple at the time, and the deeper the shade the more important they were. (IE: only the King could wear the richest shades.) This does not, again, make anyone gay. If you look, that's a desaturated purple--showing that Albel is important to the kingdom (which the King admits himself). He likely wants to be seen as an important figure to those around him as well due to his low self-worth. If you're going to try to say that everyone who tries to show off because they don't like themselves is a homosexual, you're wrong again.

Re: #9

[misteline.livejournal.com]

Wow. I 100% agree with this comment. IAWTC ♥ Just because some guy has an interesting sense of fashion doesn't necessarily mean he's gay. And that thing with Fayt isn't even fair. I mean, you're the main character. Who the hell else is he supposed to talk to? Nel? UH. They hate each other.

I'm so glad you added that tid-bit about Nel too. D8 Just because she isn't playing the role of the dainty!Female doesn't mean she's gotta be a lesbian. GAWD.

Re: #9

[ex-monarchy375.livejournal.com]

Thank you! :D

Re: #9

[melting.livejournal.com]

From a personal standpoint, I choose to view Nel as a big fan of females based on her interaction with Clair. It's not just the hug - girls hug their friends all the time - but I just remember that there's that significant look they give each other at one point.

And while the game obviously doesn't scream that the girls are screwing each other silly, that chemistry is at least some evidence in my mind for the ship. Weak evidence, but I think it's there.

Not gonna step into the Albel discussion because I don't think there's any real evidence one way or the other. XD;; Albel/sword, OTP.

Re: #9

[ex-monarchy375.livejournal.com]

I never saw a look personally. XD; I personally see her as heterosexual, but hey! I didn't see you posting "THERES NO WAY THAT GIRL IS STRAIGHT WTF >:|". XD Maybe if there would've been a bit more justification for that I wouldn't have called it out, but to me it looked like that just because she's surrounded by women she's a lesbian. And I disagree. XD; But as long as someone else can agree to disagree with me, I won't say a damn word about it. :D

Re: #9

[parcus.livejournal.com]

Pairings shouldn't really happen based on gender. I mean, if someone sees that Albel is totally gay for Fayt based on the reasoning behind how to two characters interact and the interpretation rather than just for the hell of it, there shouldn't be a problem right?

The argument that he's gay just because the way he dresses could be seen as a rather fallacious (not to be confused with fellatious) because Eddie Izzard is a transvestite and he's clearly stated that he's a male lesbian. Now, if it said that he's gay because of instances within the game to support your claim, I don't think there would be a problem with the secret.

Re: #9

[ex-monarchy375.livejournal.com]

Not "HE LOOKS FUNNY SO HE MUST BE TTLY GAY AND ALL STR8 PAIRINGS R WRONG!!!"

Re: #9

[(Anonymous)]

Chill.

in which I see your tl;dr and raise you by two.

[unite.livejournal.com]

Personally, I find it a tad ridiculous that you went and found source pictures just to prove a secret wrong. It’s not a school project, it’s a fucking fandom community.

With that said, I do agree with a lot of what you've said here (not the way you said it by any stretch of the imagination, however) as far as Albel goes. Albel is quite dysfunctional due to his upbringing – I imagine he’s terrified of allowing any sort of relationship, friendship or romantically, because forming attachments, Albel thinks, will only lead to more pain. He lost his father and blames himself, hates himself for it, and probably doesn’t even believe in the power of having a relationship with anyone because it can be so brutally and quickly taken away, with Albel powerless to stop it. If he EVER participated in an intimate relationship, it wouldn’t be for a very, very long time and after Albel really deals with the hatred of himself and the regrets of his past.

Eh, the way he dresses… whatever. XD; I mean, I would never do it, because Airyglyph looks god damn freezing, but I’ve always thought of his outfit as less of a ‘I’M A BIG GAY 8D’ statement and more of a ‘I’m not like the rest of you worms’ statement. He doesn’t want to fall into the mold of armor and chains – not to mention, he’s one of the quickest (if not THE quickest) members of your party. Why’s that? Because he doesn’t wear big clanky armor. If he relies on attacks in quick succession followed by quick retreats, then he needs to wear something that will allow for free movement. … while, again, all the while he’s making a statement that he’s too good for conformity.

His arm I believe is still intact, just burnt and, quite naturally, completely unusable. It’s really up to fan debate, since it’s never actually stated as such in game. In fact I think it explains the gauntlet all the more so, since he’s not only turning the weakness of the burns and disgrace into an effective and deadly weapon, but he’s hiding the burns as best he can.

As for his “obsession,” it’s more of a shock factor, really. It’s safe to suggest that Albel was nigh undefeatable up until Fayt came along with his stupid Destruction gene. So his “infatuation” is more of like… hm, not admiration, but… aaah, I lost the word. Basically Albel only recognizes Fayt because he lost to him. There’s no crush, no ‘I’ll let them go because he’s SO CUTE~’ bullshit, it’s just matter of fact, he can’t believe he lost, and he wants to stick with Fayt long enough to discover what makes him so strong and have another chance at destroying him on the battlefield.

Their interaction at the Peterny Inn is actually very telling in the complete opposite way you described it. If you have Fayt say he hates him, Albel cuts the conversation short – Fayt’s a tactless piece of crap and Albel’s not willing to hear that. To me, he sounds generally hurt. If Fayt says he doesn’t hate him, Albel is generally surprised – especially at the idea that Fayt respects him, even just a little. I expect Albel is a victim of ridicule due to his failure at the Succession of Flame (or whatever it’s called, I can’t remember) and heck, his troops don’t even like him. So I think the idea that someone who beat him actually respects and admires – even though he doesn’t understand it – Albel’s dedication to the battlefield. I believe his eventual dismissal of the event is basically just him not being able to deal with that idea, the conflicts in being respected by someone who has already proven to be better at him in the one thing he prides himself on.

Re: in which I see your tl;dr and raise you by two.

[ex-monarchy375.livejournal.com]

I honestly have to agree with a lot of the things you said here as well. One of my big problems with general Albel romance is him just JUMPING THE GUN OF WUV for no apparent reason.

Albel actually lost to Fayt, Cliff and Nel--it was just Fayt that used that final line against him, the one he used against them previously. That left an emotional scar, especially considering his past, and his desire to prove he's the best. He lost and he was mocked. But it's not some kind of love obsession, and that's the point I was trying to make.

I'm not talking about the interaction in the inn, I'm talking about the private action right afterwards. That's where Albel asks Fayt about the King and the war; and it's there that he starts talking about it, not in the inn.

Well, everyone interprets things differently. I interpreted that as the fact that underneath it all, Albel really does want a friend, someone to challenge him (and he admits the first part in the Crimson Scourge scene), but he isn't completely sure how to approach it and not that he has some kind of creepy obsession with Fayt sticking it in his ass. If that's how someone else wants to see it, that's well and good-that's not even my point. The point is that just because he doesn't look "normal" by someone's standards doesn't mean he's completely full of teh ghey. If this person would've posted, "I think Albel/Fayt is beautiful, it reminds me of me and my boyfriend" or something, I wouldn't have said anything. I was aggravated by the approach of the whole thing, not who they pair Albel with--I could care less. It's just the "HE NEEDS BUTTSECKS BECAUSE HE LOOKS TTLY HOMOO!!!" that annoyed me.

[unite.livejournal.com]

As for your argument about Nel, with the hug? Holds no water. Yes, females hug other females. But there was a level of intimacy I saw between the two, on top of glance after glance, subtlety within their tones, etc. Also? I'm a lesbian. So I don't hug/cuddle my straight friends at random, I don't get all intimate with them because for me? It means something entirely different than it would for two straight girls hugging. Nel, Tynave, and Farleen exchange no intimacy - or at the very least, no hugs. It is exclusively Clair who receives such affections from Nel, and likewise.

Added to Clair's reluctance to marry (which in turn also amounts from Adray's annoying persistence of it) and the variety of ways one can interpret the Nel ending and the Adray ending in regards to both womens' sexuality. Sorry to say, Squeenix, but the only good thing in this game is the characterization (of very few) of their playable characters and the myriad of ways you can view them.

So therefore, your opinions of the characters is great because you seem very firm in your beliefs. That’s wonderful! But the fact that you can’t seem to grasp the idea that others can interpret characters and interactions differently than you do, and your comment, to me, is borderline homophobic. Your icon isn’t exactly helping in that regard, and I found it rather offensive.

[ex-monarchy375.livejournal.com]

...lol about last first part. Did you catch the "for no reason" part? :D I'm by no means homophobic, I actually do like some slash pairings, and not only do I have some friends who are far from heterosexual I was a member of the GSA at my school. I'm laughing at you so hard it's making my stomach hurt. I just LOVE it that whenever someone says anything against TEH GEHY of a couple fictional characters they HAVE to be a homophobe! And boohoo, what an offensive icon. :'D I'm going to go cry now.

Now, for the rest.

I'm not a lesbian, my best friend isn't a lesbian, and we hug a lot. We've been friends for seven years. We've gone through a lot of shit together, and whenever one starts to either look down or fall behind, the other is always there to give each other a hug. Hell, sometimes she sits on me. We're both affectionate people who are completely comfortable with our sexuality. If someone wants to point at us and go "LOL LESBIANS!!!" we just kinda laugh at them, because we're not getting anything out of it. So to me that argument does hold water. It depends on who it's coming from.

Clair wants to focus on her job, why does that make her a lesbian? She's got other things to focus on instead of getting married? I see nothing about that that points at her sexuality in any way whatsoever.

The thing is with this game, all the solo endings? They're optional. You can get whichever one you want--you can even get a solo Fayt ending. You can refuse to talk kindly to a single one of these characters and avoid almost all of the private actions. Also, everything can be interpreted differently. I don't know if you noticed, but my problem was far more with the fact that this thing had absolutely no basis other than physical appearance.

There's a difference between, "I like Nel/Clair because ____" and "THOSE TEMPLE MAIDENS ALL SHIT GAY." You completely lost the meaning of my comment with this. If character interaction is based on actual interpretation instead of just some stupid comment? I won't say a word. I have people on my friends list who disagree with me, and we both have strong opinions--but we don't fight over it because we know that we each have our reasons. I'm not telling anyone that their ship is wrong. I'm saying that just because Albel looks odd doesn't mean he's king supreme uke.

Re: #9

[yui-hime.livejournal.com]

I think you're overreacting a little.

Re: #9

[(Anonymous)]

Methinks you need to learn read some more.

Re: #9

[(Anonymous)]

Woooow. That's a true fangirl right there. Whether that's good or bad is up for your interpretation.

Re: #9

[(Anonymous)]

Wordy McWord, madam. I am honestly baffled by some of the comments you received here; are good and cohesive arguments lost on the majority of fandomsecret posters?

Re: #9

[misteline.livejournal.com]

It seems they are. :|