[ SECRET POST #336 ]

[degrees.livejournal.com]

⌈ Secret Post #336 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Out again, Christmas shopping/making a buttload of cookies! You know what to do!

Last day to submit for next week!

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #048.
Secrets Not Posted: 0 broken links, [ 1 ] not!secret, [ 1 ] not!fandom, [ 1 ] repeat.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Saturday, December 7th, 2007.
Current Secret Submission Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[asdhjfbciwu3487.livejournal.com]

37. I don't even know half of the girls on there, and don't actually hate most of the ones I do know... but I'll kind of have to agree with this secret. Not everyone dislikes female characters just because they're women or get in the way of buttsecks or whatever. It may be an issue on the author's side or just a cultural gap.

(Plus, it seems too often female characters are relegated to being plot devices that make a male character seem more appealing, which is fucked up.)

[crackjaw.livejournal.com]

IAWTC immensely. However, a lot of the characters on there I recognize don't apply (like Tifa, wtf), which bothers me :/

[yui-hime.livejournal.com]

Again, I don't see Tifa on there. WTF?

[elena-takami.livejournal.com]

Mistaken Garnet identity?

[militarypenguin.livejournal.com]

Or Mistaken Rinoa Identity.

[kefanii.livejournal.com]

I think people think Garnet is Tifa because noone played FF9.

[blinkidybah.livejournal.com]

FF9 is my favorite but that's so true T_T

[asdhjfbciwu3487.livejournal.com]

That's why I can't agree with this secret, only the gist of it. I'm sure there are tons of girls that don't fit that category and are listed on this secret (even though I don't know a good part of them, haha). But for the ones I do know, I'll have to agree that some of them fit this description, and it is annoying.

[(Anonymous)]

All of the characters I picked were healer/sometimes summoner-type love interests. A certain amount of personal bias did go into picking the characters - since the girl that *always* wins the love triangle is the healer, I stuck in Aeris rather than Tifa. I'm convinced that had she not died, Cloud would have ended up with her... but that's a whole 'nother bucket of wank.

[kinneas.livejournal.com]

I DO know half of the girls on here and then some, and most of them do NOT fit this stereotype. Yes, there are plenty of legitimate and not retarded reasons to dislike a female characer, but this particular one doesn't really apply here at all =\

It's like claiming you don't like apples because they're too purple.

[asdhjfbciwu3487.livejournal.com]

As I said in a comment above, I'm not agreeing with this secret, but the idea of it. I'm absolutely sure that not every female character I dislike is a Mary Sue or yamato nadeshiko or whatever (the same way I'll dislike male characters because I just don't like them, disliking a character should have nothing to do with gender, IMO, but on how they're written/who they are).

I just think there are a lot of female characters in general that are written to incite a certain feeling in the hearts of the male audience, and because of that sometimes they're not really able to stand on their own.

[kinneas.livejournal.com]

Sure, of course there are, but not the ones mentioned in this secret that incite such a reaction. The idea of the secret is that those specific women suck ass and fall into that category, thus she writes slash instead of dealing with them.

It really makes no sense.

[asdhjfbciwu3487.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's why I said "kind of" in my initial comment. I'm not a fan of such broad, sweeping generalizations in the first place. But I can see why, if the OP thinks that the characters she lists ALL manage to fall under that category, she'd turn to slash.

I'm not exactly condoning accusing every female character of being useless, and it is an unfair thing to say, but it does exist and it's not exactly great.

[(Anonymous)]

I picked them because they're all the protagonist's main love interest, across the board all healers (occasionally summoners or some such truck). While all of the characters may not exemplify the Yamato perfectly, they're all a type that have roots that hearken back to the Yamato.

Am I making sense?

[(Anonymous)]

You are making sense to me, secretmaker.

[agawa-jean.livejournal.com]

While agree with the fact that the Yamoto personality is disturbing, I honestly think what you're talking about is an entirely different stereotype, which, while it may have some of the same roots is not the same thing, hence why you're getting so many people up in your face about it.

I definitely understand rejecting the stereotype of the female love interest as the weak healer, who is often defined soley by her relation to the male character. However, at the same time, there are good characters who are both partially in that stereotype not because they do not have their own fully fleshed out storyline and character but because they happen to be both A)a love interest and B) a healer.

So, even if they are part of a larger stereotype that I can sort of shake my head at, and while I appreciated moving beyond that box, there's no reason that stereotype should invalidate strong female characters who fit within it. Honestly, some of my misunderstanding (before reading your comments) was centered around defining what is a "good" female character.

My initial impression was that disregarding in some cases valid and well developed characters for partially fitting in an overarching stereotype (even the weak healer/love interest) is part of fandom's constant misogyny for female characters that fall outside what they expect.

In my belief, female characters should be just that - well developed characters, like any other, and that's what they should be judged by. Judging female characters for displaying certain traits then (even if they are part of an overarching stereotype) when they are a perfectly valid character, seems to be a step backwards, much like criticizing modern housewives for not being what we consider a women "should" be now. In other words, it still seems to me a way of judging how women should be

That's just my take on what I've read, and please forgive me if it's a bit confusing! This week is exams week, and I'm operating on 3 hours of sleep. @__@!

And yeah, sorry 'bout the tl;dr

[agawa-jean.livejournal.com]

And yeah, I know you're defending your point to a lot of people right now, so...no worries, eh? I always find it an incredibly satisfying sign when people are thinking about the media they consume (whether I agree with them on it or not) so I just felt I had to get in on the discussion. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just generally find the topic very interesting, and I was pleasantly surprised to see the thought behind your secret.

[elena-takami.livejournal.com]

See, I could understand Belldandy.

But of the characters up there, I can ID 9. None of them is a Nadeshiko. For starters, most of them are far too perky and not graceful enough.

[(Anonymous)]

You seriously don't think Yuna, at least, is a Nadeshiko, or at least heavy on the Nadeshiko-esque traits? (I'd assume that's one of the ones you recognized.) I mean, seriously?

We're obviously not on the same page.

[elena-takami.livejournal.com]

...The Nadeshiko ideal -is- Belldandy. She's graceful, composed, meek, humble,willing to do anything for the man in her life, and above all, very, very passive.

Sure, Yuna is quite high on traits. But she isn't passive, she isn't meek, and she is not there purely to back up Tidus. She's got her own thoughts, her own ideals, and her own goals that do not revolve around kimonos and tea ceremonies and Tidus.

de-anond

[relmneiko.livejournal.com]

Not to back up Tidus, rather to back up the ideals of her society. She's obedient in that she is obeying the expectations of her role as high summoner.

[cftfic.livejournal.com]

Sorry, totally unrelated, but augh where is everybody getting gundam 00 icons? :( I suck at making icons :(

[asdhjfbciwu3487.livejournal.com]

Aha, I make my own. You're free to take any of the ones I am using with credit if you're so inclined... one of my friends made a 00 icon post here (http://community.livejournal.com/hastega/778.html) (I hope she doesn't mind me pimping it.)

[mands-leanan.livejournal.com]

See, you basically said what I was trying to say, but you worded it better.

[asdhjfbciwu3487.livejournal.com]

Replying to myself since I can't edit this comment anymore:

I did a bit of reading about some of the characters I didn't know (some I knew by name/appearance but didn't play the game and some that were mentioned in the comments). Upon gaining further knowledge I'll have to second the sentiments that a good majority of these girls don't really fit the traditional nadeshiko role.

That being said, though, I can understand how some of these characters' traits could annoy someone enough into not liking them and the roles they play in the series.

But yeah, not really nadeshiko, just a bit too perfect in some cases?