[ SECRET POST #2780 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2780 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 034 secrets from Secret Submission Post #397.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, thank you, I do know that. But the idea that "I'm a hetero" is deemed sufficient explanation makes no sense, nor does the idea that one can only 'identify' with someone of the same gender as oneself.

[(Anonymous)]

Stop being such a goddamn nitpick. Maybe it's not relevant to you, and that's fine, but it IS relevant to the person who said it.

[(Anonymous)]

No, I don't think I will: can't break the habit of a lifetime. Also, boy, you're exceptionally touchy. The argument is not your blue eyed child.

DA

[(Anonymous)]

I'm a ciswoman and I don't really connect with, let alone get off, on stories where all characters identify as male, have male bodies and have male-on-male sex. I don't picture myself in it, so it's a foreign world to me. I don't see why I should pretend to be into it just to be "politically correct".

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

I'm ace and I've wondered if this is why I prefer het when I read smut, even though most pairings that catch my interest when it gets to shipping are slash.

Oddly, femmeslash doesn't do much more for me than slash does.

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

No-one is remotely suggesting you should do anything to be "politically correct" - although as an aside I side-eye anyone using that phrase, especially in scare quotes, extremely hard. What I was questioning was the concept that one can map neatly cishet to cishet. Ain't necessarily so.

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

I suppose the other anon ought to be terrified. You're side-eying her! The terror!

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

DA

One could argue the OP of the secret is saying exactly that.

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

Why does everyone assume that shipping something automatically correlates to "I want to read porn of them fucking"?

There are plenty of characters I ship but have no interest in porn of for whatever reason. Sometimes I just want to read G-rated stuff for a particular pairing.

Re: DA

[diet_poison]

That varies person-to-person.

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

Honestly, I think this is just a case of where people read things differently.

Me? I NEVER imagine myself in the scenario. Why would I? There's no guarantee that any of the characters would like me and I'm not part of their universe. Plus, what I love in shipping is the interactions between the two characters themselves. Why would I want to put myself in there?

I've observed that a lot of het shippers seem to self-insert with the female character and that's something I never understood. How can you be a fan of a character if you're using her as a placeholder for yourself?

It just seems like she's just a means to an end -- that end being the reader imagining herself hooking up with a hot guy.

I don't know. I'm sorry if this comes off as accusatory, but it's something that bothers me because slashers are so often accused of ignoring or treating female characters horribly. But I don't really see how self-interserting or "picturing yourself in it" is any better truthfully.

(Mind you, there's nothing inherently wrong with that, I just don't see how it's more "respectful" of female characters than what slashers do.)

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

For the record I don't "replace" female characters with myself and that's an insultingly simplified way to put it! Female characters provide me with a comfortable familiarity and a solid starting point to understand what they're feeling and experiencing. I need to reach a pretty intimate level of connection with fictional people to geniunely care about them. Maybe some of you don't, but I do.

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

I guess I don't understand what you mean by "picture myself in it" then.

Do you mean a threesome?

It was just a really odd turn of phrase that stuck out to me because the last thing I do in fic is put myself into it or picture myself in it. I'm in it for the characters and their interactions with each other.

Re: DA

[diet_poison]

I don't go out of my way to look for porn but I find m/f where the man is attractive and the woman is badass to be hot. I don't self-insert at all because imagining myself with the man does nothing for me - I can't even imagine what he'd look or feel like irl but uhhh that's because all of my fandom crushes are animated OOPS but anyway I just happen to like that setup? some straight women like gay porn. some like het. we're all different and we can be wired differently for what turns us on.

but it's something that bothers me because slashers are so often accused of ignoring or treating female characters horribly.

Some of them do but not all. it depends on a lot of things. if all they want to do is write/read porn and m/m turns them on, I understand why they do it. but if they write long complex fics with female characters in important roles but then write them badly and downplay their importance, or pretend they don't exist when it wouldn't make sense for them not to be there, then yeah, that's kinda crappy

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

I'm the same way, anon. I don't get the idea of self-inserting yourself onto a character or into a universe at all and in fact I find it rather creepy. I don't care how much I like a character, I'm not them and they're not me and so their thoughts and actions and experiences are something entirely separate from my own that I'm viewing through the lens of the canon. I like the character as a character, not as a stand-in for myself.

An anon below mentioned knowing exactly what it's like to be that female character, but... that still doesn't make any sense to me. I don't know what it's like. I'm not that character. I can understand their emotions and why they react the way they do but I would never say I understand what it's like to be that character because I can't.

It just kind of blurs IC/OOC lines to me and crosses into creepy territory.

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

See, I don't even mind that het fans self-insert in some cases (to each their own I suppose).

But I really hate how it seems like slashers get stereotyped as horny fangirls who just want to watch guys fuck or who are hating on and ignoring the female characters while the het fans are treating female characters "right" by including them in the pairing.

But…if you self-insert, you're basically scooping out that woman's brains and identity and turning her into an empty shell so that you can use her to project your desire for the male character. And I don't see how that's respectful at all. It's not wrong -- a lot of fic is about fantasy, after all.

But it doesn't make you better than slashers or more considerate of female characters either.

And it frustrates me that this idea seems so prevalent among certain parts of fandom.

Re: DA

[tyger66]

I'm asexual, and I mostly only read slash. I'm pretty sure it's actually because there's absolutely no way I can picture myself as one of the participants.

Re: DA

[solticisekf]

Do you read PWP and such?

Re: DA

[tyger66]

I do occasionally, but in general I prefer insanely long fic (like 60,000+ words) and usually skip past the actual porny parts of those. It doesn't make me uncomfortable like het or F/F stuff, but I just don't find sex that interesting, so I get super bored if a sex scene runs long in any media.

idk, I don't like thinking about myself or my body in a sexual or romantic way, so any fic that involves a lot of female romance/sex stuff makes me uncomfortable enough to stop reading. I can't help but imagine what the various acts would feel like, and I don't enjoy thinking about it, so it shuts down any pleasure I get from reading the fic.

I sometimes read ~PG rated het stuff, but I actively avoid any het that goes beyond light kissing. =/

[(Anonymous)]

This. That argument makes literally zero sense to me. I can identify with characters who aren't my gender/sexuality/race/species/whatever because they have traits I can understand and empathize with regardless of our differences.

To be honest, I think anyone who can't identify with characters who aren't exactly like them has issues they need to address.

[(Anonymous)]

Just because you're versatile doesn't mean everyone else is just "stuck up".

Yes, the general human experience is pretty much the same across every group of people but once we get to love and lovemaking, gender and sexuality make a HUGE difference. Don't pretend it doesn't, we're far from living in a progressive hippie wonderland where everyone is genderless and pansexual.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm bi, actually, and I've dated men and women. There's much less of a difference than you think.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT made no such claim. Honestly, some of the antis in this bit of the thread are not so much jumping to conclusions as being fired out of cannons at conclusions.

Why so defensive? If you are secure in your own identity and turn-ons, all power to you. Just don't forget, as oddly you are keen to accuse others of doing, that we are all different.

[cloud_riven]

If it's a porn or romance thing, and someone needs to self-insert or intensely relate or whatever, I don't think it's so much issues as it is just getting what they want out of it. Doesn't sound bad to me.

[(Anonymous)]

Porn I can understand, because what turns people on is very individual. But just romance? See, I don't get that either.

I'm not going to magically be able to relate to a character just by virtue of their being female. Not all women are alike, and there are plenty of female characters I can't relate to at all. There are also plenty of male characters I can relate to easily. The idea that someone can identify with any and all characters of one sex and not with any of the other just doesn't make any sense.