[ SECRET POST #2787 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2787 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 022 secrets from Secret Submission Post #398.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[galerian-ash.livejournal.com]

I don't get why people always try to use "Anders approves of giving Fenris back to Danarius" and "Fenris advices you to kill Anders when he asks you to" as arguments. I mean, the same can be said for every other character! With Danarius you get a few rivalry points for some of them (but not Isabela), and nobody cares if you kill Anders -- not even Varric, who pretty much comes across as the guy's only friend (see the pillow thing). I dunno if it came down to shoddy writing or what, but the point is that you can't really use those two examples to justify why the pairing "doesn't work".

[(Anonymous)]

"nobody cares if you kill anders"

yeah cause by that time he's a TERRORIST WHO JUST STARTED A WAR. circumstances kinda matter. if you randomly killed him before that people who aren't Fenris would probably have cared but you never get the chance to see either way.

[galerian-ash.livejournal.com]

I don't think that has anything to do with it. Circumstances don't matter -- the writers probably just couldn't have a bunch of characters deserting you based on your choices, whether it was about Anders blowing up the chantry or Fenris being given back to Danarius.

[darkmanifest]

All your companions verbally weigh in on what to do with Anders, only Varric doesn't give an opinion either way. All the rivalry/friendship points stop accumulating in the final quest because it's at that point that your points are tallied to determine whether or not a companion will stick with Hawke depending on what side is chosen, mage or templar. It's a reflection of the mechanic, not the writing.

[galerian-ash.livejournal.com]

Yes, I know there's no friendship/rivalry points given during that quest -- that's why I didn't mention it. I only brought up points in regards to the Danarius thing. Do you think that's a "reflection of the mechanic" as well?

And honestly, I think that if the only friend Anders has can't be arsed to say something beyond "I'm sick of the whole templar mage thing", then that is a problem with the writing. Especially if you've gone the route where Anders is horrified at what he's done, and is begging Hawke to kill him.

[darkmanifest]

Actually, I do. In every major decision Hawke makes, DA2 tries to have companions who approve, disapprove, and don't care. But there was no one among the party who would even slightly believably approve of Fenris being sold...except Anders. Even though it was outside of his character to support anything Danarius wanted when he's displayed nothing but loathing for mages who make his cause look bad, the game needed somebody to, and Anders just came closest.

Varric's reaction was true to his character. I think it would have been bad writing if he, an example of neutrality in the majority of decisions Hawke makes, suddenly made an exception for Anders that he didn't make for, say, Fenris being sold, even though he liked Fenris like he liked Anders, too. I also don't know where you're getting Varric being Anders' only friend from. Hawke could be his bestest best friend, and it made no difference.

[(Anonymous)]

da

Yeah, I think for the most part, DA2 was very well done as a character drama, but frankly, none of the characters are really bad enough people to make the game mechanics seamlessly believable. I kind of don't really think Anders would have hated Fenris enough to approve of selling him out like that - especially since he too hates "slavery". And he never expressed anything but sympathy for the plight of the elves. But for the mechanics to really be a game, every decision ought to have some characters who approve and some who don't, and Anders is the only one in the party who actively hates Fenris as a person, so there's that.

For all the excellent characters you have (and I do think they are ALL excellent), none are really "evil" or at least sadistic. Morally grey at best, but all are well-meaning. When Hawke has the option to make really horrible choices, this doesn't really reflect. The only alternative would be to really justify a reason why Fenris should have to go back to Danarius - maybe he's dangerous, or Danarius threatens to kill someone if they don't comply, etc., but it's really a pure evil thing, how it's presented. And there are just no evil companions to admire you, so the next best thing?

[darkmanifest]

Exactly, it's great drama (that's why I'm glad it was there) that unfortunately conflicts with the mechanics. Unlike the situation with, say, you give up Isabela to save a whole city from invasion and also because she had betrayed you badly once already, giving up Fenris has no justification that anybody can logically get behind, not even Anders on the bad side of crazy. Like you said, there needed to be something more going on there than just Hawke wanting to avoid a small fight or just not liking Fenris, but I don't know what. And that's true, about DA2's companions - in DA:O, your reward for selling slaves is the evidence against Loghain you came for without having to risk your life for it, and Morrigan and Sten approve because they're all about getting closer to ending the Blight as efficiently as possible. Nobody in DA2 has cold pragmatism like that, not even Isabela and Varric. So it makes some of the coldly pragmatic decisions Hawke makes seem a little empty, there just to be there.

Kind of like what happened with Orsino at the end, since Meredith goes crazy whether you go with templars or mages, Orsino has to do the same to balance it out, even though there's no good character reason for it.