[ SECRET POST #2788 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2788 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 011 secrets from Secret Submission Post #398.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

11. http://i.imgur.com/HN59qad.png

[mekkio]

I know an artist has to eat but you don't do that to your readership. It's unprofessional. Not only does it turn off current readers but future readers as well.

I also side eye webcomic artists who have less than ten pages up but have merchandise by the truckful all set up and ready to go. The story hasn't even started and they are already pushing Zazzle merch down the readers' throats. That tells me they are less about the story and more about sell.

[ketita]

out of curiosity, what about like "bonus chapters" that you need to pay for that aren't part of the plot?

Though I definitely agree with you about merchandise, some of the stuff I've seen is just kind of crass.

[mekkio]

I feel the same way about bonus chapters. Now, if you were printing out your comics in book form and put in bonus chapters as incentive to buy the print addition, I can see it because you are buying the book in a different format.

Imagine it this way, say you are watching a series on network television. The network shows every episode except for the last couple and says, "If you want to know what happens, you have to pay." You would think this is a unfair. However, if they showed all the episodes with the complete storyline and then put out a dvd with bonus features like mini episodes, you would be perfectly fine with that. Because it's a different format and the mini episodes feel like a bonus thank you for buying the DVD. You aren't holding the audience hostage saying, "If you want to find out what happens you gotta pay." But, "Thanks for buying the book. Here's a treat for doing so."

Don't make your online readership pay for something that was up to that point free. You will only anger them.

[ketita]

Oh, the "pay to see the end" thing is a dick move, I agree.

And I can see how publishing and adding goodies is a different thing, and probably wouldn't annoy people. But the situation I was going for was more... idk, something that is genuinely peripheral to the main story, yet happens in the world. Say, giving a backstory chapter to a side character, which has no influence on the plot nor impacts the main story, but is its own little story. Would you still consider it holding the audience hostage, since it doesn't impact their enjoyment of the main story?

Or, out of curiosity, I've seen webcomics that offer high-quality downloads of chapters zipped for a small payment (while the chapter itself appears online for free, as usual). How do you feel about that?

[(Anonymous)]

That's not really a fair comparison though, because there's already a system set in place to pay for television. It's why not every show stays on the air, because if a show doesn't appear to be profitable (either through adverts or merchandising) then it will be taken off the air, and in many cases that means you WON'T know how it ends unless the creator decides to take it to another company. Heck, there has been television that did exactly the same thing you are opposed to webcomics doing, there have been kickstarters to create movies or extra episodes because without proof of backing from fans, companies won't pick it up.

Webcomics are giving you the opportunity to see if you like content before you have to pay. While the "I only give this chapter to paid readers" thing may suck, it may be the only way some webcomic artists can make money off the venture. A lot of people won't pay for "extras" but they will pay to keep the main content going.

[cushlamochree]

HOLY CRAP A SPACETRAWLER SECRET!

As to the content... hm. I usually agree about holding stuff hostage, but it doesn't bother me so much in this case. I think it's partly because Baldwin wasn't holding any content hostage, he was just going to change the story. I'm also not sure how serious he was about it (Dmitri was important enough in the ending that it would have been kind of tricky to actually not bring him back, I think). And also I just love Spacetrawler.

I'm sorry you didn't like the comic more! I absolutely loved pretty much all the characters to death. Loved, loved, loved them, the characters are the best part of the whole strip for me. But to each their own. And if you weren't into the characters, I can see the strip being kinda lackluster.

[(Anonymous)]

One of the webcomics I read annoys me to no end with this shit.
There's a lot of important backstory and setting information that the artist keeps behind a paywall (a paywall that claims itself solely as the porn section, mind you) because it's "not absolutely essential to understanding the current plot."

But it IS still pretty important to understanding the motivations of some of the characters, and why they're fighting, and just basically making the world more substantial and believable.

Also, it's in the porn section.

No sense. No sense at all.

[tyger66]

Menage a 3?

[(Anonymous)]

IS it Curvy?

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe in the main comic story it is a little weird but honestly? Webcomic readers are some of the most entitled people in the world. They are giving you content for free doing something they spend hours on in their "spare time" and people complain when there aren't updates or if a comic artist DARE put up a donation button (even if it's an optional donation button and doesn't effect the content AT ALL I've seen people complain.) A lot of webcomic artists I've known are not exactly rolling in cash so sometimes they need that money for them to be able to continue.

And I'm sorry, but the more you advertise that you are selling your work, the more it sells. I loathe advertising myself more then anything but there's always a result versus when I try to not advertise myself too much and sales start stagnating.

Artists deserve to make money just like someone of any other profession. Television has been putting advertisements in their shows for years, why not comics?

[blitzwing]

Artists deserve to make money just like someone of any other profession. Television has been putting advertisements in their shows for years, why not comics?

Honestly I think it's the way he's done it that grates. "Maybe" and "If it sells enough" when fans aren't told what "enough" is, and even if they hit that all they're guaranteed is a "maybe" that usually means "probably not" because if a project is neglected/an action untaken, it's usually because the creator didn't want to do it.

I've seen plenty of comics and subscription services say "If we reach X amount of monthly support each month, we can increase the amount of updates by Y amount per month, or release a bonus story" which is very concrete and lets people know the actual hard goal that must be hit, and gives them a concrete reward/product for doing so.

[(Anonymous)]

I can understand if fans don't want to pay or are distrustful because a creator is unreliable, but honestly that's not even what I see half the time. Most of the time I see people bitching just because the comic artist dare even brings up the dirty word "money." The secret itself wasn't even specific in saying they don't like the "maybe" but that they dislike when artists "hold content hostage" which really could mean they get annoyed at any content under a pay barrier.

Like I've said, I've seen people get hate even when the content absolutely was not effected and the artist simply advertised for them self. Even if content is effected, no one owes someone anything if they aren't a paying member. Why I think fans are entitled is because there seems to be this consistent attitude of "How dare you do something with YOUR webcomic that *I* don't like even though I've never contributed anything and you are the one who does all the work and takes on all the costs it takes to produce."

I just don't understand why the creator is the asshole for trying to do what they need to do to keep creating because this is the real world and time can cost. I think it's way more of an asshole move to bitch about people who in reality owe you absolutely nothing.

[blitzwing]

I haven't seen any of the behavior you mention myself (except maybe with OotS, but that's maybe a wee bit different since a lot of it was Kickstarter-rewards bitching iirc), but I believe you, just based on my own experiences with hella entitled people on the internet. I could not believe anyone could be that entitled, but they were.


I just don't understand why the creator is the asshole for trying to do what they need to do to keep creating because this is the real world and time can cost.

This is where I think making a clear link between what the money does helps. There will always be some people (maybe they're really spoiled or have never had to work) who won't get it, but a lot of people who might have whined will see the benefits to more money to the artist when it's mentioned.

[(Anonymous)]

No no no. Web comic artists do not 'deserve' money. By suddenly switching from the story being free to requiring money is an asshole move. At least be upfront with your readers that that's what you're going to do. And don't expect readers to automatically be into your characters enough to buy membership. What people will read when it's free is not necessarily the same as when they have to pay.

[(Anonymous)]

It's not an asshole move if they started a comic for fun and then realize there's absolutely no way to continue it without receiving some sort of pay.

No one is forcing anyone to pay for these things, you don't think the comic is good enough to pay for it? Then don't pay for it. Webcomic artists do not owe you anything just because you read their comic. They only owe you something IF YOU PAY.

[blitzwing]

Not sure if serious...

[(Anonymous)]

Goblins is trying to merchandise now?

I want to laugh, but that would probably make me a jerk.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

It's not merchandise exactly, but Goblins has been taking cash forever, via the subcomic Tempts Fate. It actually stopped accepting donations recently, because the author felt guilty about getting so many donations when he hadn't updated Tempts Fate in a while.