fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #343 ]

[ SECRET POST #343 ]

⌈ Secret Post #343 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

If I may direct your attention to this poll → HERE

EDIT: I removed a few secrets because it was just brought to my attention (I have a crappy memory) that people are being banned for being flagged for this kind of stuff. SORRY. D:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #049.
Secrets Not Posted: 0 broken links, [ 1 2 ] not!secrets, 0 not!fandom [ 1 ] secret revisted/link to fanfiction.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Saturday, December 15th, 2007.
Current Secret Submission Post: ~~here~~ CLOSED.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

lol guys way to miss my point.

My point was, if you can act like a stereotypical man as a woman, then why do you need to identify as a "man" when a "woman" can act the exact same way as said "man" would?

You can't hold that "Males can act like females if they want to" and say "but I want to identify as a man"... ...because under that view of gender identity, if a male can act female, then why would they need to BE female to act "female"? They can still call themselves a man but wear pretty pretty dresses and play with ponies for all I care?

It's the definition that needs to change in that case, not your gender? It sounds backwards to go "I'M A MAN IN A WOMAN'S BODY ...BUT ACTUALLY I STILL ACT LIKE YOUR SIMPLE IDEA OF A WOMAN" ...no, how about you just say I'm a human being with a vagina but I don't like it that much and want to get it changed? Insisting that you're a man stuck in a woman's body while saying "lol but a man can act feminine if he wants" just sounds...crazy. You're asserting the very gender stereotype you're trying to break free from?

Unless the only object of desire is a penis, in which case you will never get a working one with current medical science? I guess you can get rid of your boobs if you want. I hear about men grinding their pelvises down to obtain a feminine "identity" that's completely out of reach for their bodies without SCRAPING HALF THEIR PELVIS OFF and it's like whoa whoa whoa you can wear all the dresses you want, why do you need to chop off half your body to do so?? Aside from that what is it about being "female" when you are biologically SET as being a male that you want?

So if gender identity =/= "stereotypical definitions of being male/female, i.e. the man hunts and the female cooks and all that bullshit"

Then gender identity comes down to whether or not one has a dick, which is set by biology, and which changing is very painful?

So I just don't understand. With anorexics and even people wanting size DD boobs, we say "what the hell just be happy with the body you have" ...but when someone goes "HELP HELP I'M A WOMAN STUCK IN A MAN'S BODY" it's suddenly okay for them to lop off their dick and shave off half their pelvis because "gender can be anything you want it to be!! 8D" ???

So I don't understand at all. Aside from wanting your body to be something it's not, what else is there to this?? AGAIN, if you have a dick you can certainly wear dresses, and if you've got a vagina you can stomp around shooting deer for all I care. But if you assert that having a penis doesn't necessarily mean you have to shoot deer, then why would you need a penis to be what society defines as a "man" aside from just wanting the penis that you can't realistically have?? In that case it would simply be the gender definition that needs to be changed, not what gender you think of yourself as?? (As in, wouldn't it be easier to tell people that women can drive fast cars than to say I'm a man but I'd still like to giggle and cook pie ps I have a vagina too" ???)

I've had thoughts like these--I think optimally, in a society completely free of gender-related stereotypes, that people wouldn't feel a need for sex change. But people get impressions even at a young age that what they're doing is "right" or "wrong" for their sex--and it's relaxing more, yes, but the stereotypes are still there (because, as a general predictor, the actually usually do work), and so people feel like since what they are doing is "wrong" for their sex, it must be their sex that's wrong. I'm not sure it's quite comparable to anorexia and DD breast surgery (different motivations and different health risks), but I do think it's kind of sad that some people feel like they don't belong in their own body.

"Then gender identity comes down to whether or not one has a dick..."

No. There is more to gender identity than being able to act in stereotypically masculine or feminine ways; there is more to gender identity than the physical gender of one's body; there is more to gender identity than the way society perceives a person based on their gender. There is more to gender identity than being male or female. The fact that you continue to insist on simplifying the issue is mildly insulting (only mildly, because I'm assuming you aren't a troll).

Despite the fact that gender roles are less restrictive in modern society than they have been in the past, they are still very clearly defined- so, no, a woman can not act the same way a man does, not without having to justify herself first. And no, a man can't put on dresses and prance around baking pies, not in public, not without facing serious ramifications and potential bodily injury. You may not care if a woman wants to drive fast cars or shoot deer, but society does.

Yes, it would be nice if we could abolish gender roles and and redefine gender as something other than the very limiting binary that it is most frequently defined as today. But barring a sudden, world-wide paradigm shift or another hundred years of civil rights movements, that isn't going to happen on any large scale any time soon.

(Long parenthetical alert! Comparing transgenderism with anorexia, and equating anorexia with breast implants, only works insofar as all three situations imply some level of body dysmorphia. Anorexia is an obsessive-compulsive disease that only ends when a person dies, or seeks treatment. Transgenderism doesn't lead a person to compulsively self-harm, and it has a "stopping point," so to speak: a person can reach their desired gender. It can be difficult, but it can be done; an anorexic, on the other hand, can never reach their "ideal" weight. As for breast implants- women have myriad reasons for getting them, and yeah, some reasons are better than others, but plastic surgery isn't inherently crazy. It may be indicative of a lot of what is wrong with society and modern standards of beauty, but that's a rant for a whole 'nother parenthetical.)

I would suggest, as others have, that you do some actual research into gender identity and transexualism, as it's very clear that you have done little to no research in this area. (If you had, for instance, you would know that it is possible, through surgery and hormone therapy, for FTM transexuals to have working male genitalia; FTMguide.org (http://www.ftmguide.org/) has some of the technical details, if you're curious.) It would be more useful to you than waiting for someone on this community to answer your questions, and would be infinitely less frustrating to those of us who are assuming the length of your comments mean you do actually want to learn about this. Wiki "gender identity disorder" to start, followed by "transgender." Livejournal also has numerous transgender communities that should be full of information.

When you're done with that, and you're still having trouble understanding why people will go to such lengths to eliminate dischord between their physical selves and their mental perceptions of theirselves, you might find body modification a somewhat enlightening direction of study- or potentially incredibly squicky, so I offer that suggestion with a huge caveat. Body dysmorphic disorder would be another topic to look into, though I haven't been able to find much on teh internets that is terribly useful in that area.

I honestly find your obstinate confusion completely baffling, so I apologize if this response is less than helpful to you. But if you're seriously looking for information on gender identity and trans issues, fandomsecrets really isn't the best place to start.

I think I love you, Anonymous.

^_^

For you. Anonymous.

Thank you!

And I personally don't get the Western obsession with the body as sanctuary either. I think the essential self is in the MIND.

I think it's because some people don't have an idea of how serious transsexualism actually is, especially the fandom trannies that plague my existence.. For a boob job, you don't need to get psychological help or a "real life test" to see how your new boobs would affect other people. For anorexia, you need psychological help to prevent you from dying. (For me, that's the difference between transsexualism and anorexia- your health is at risk.)

And sex=/=gender. It is theoretically possible for one's genitalia to be one sex and their brain more like the other (because we don't think with our crotch). Plus there are such a thing as intersexed individuals. (I personally don't really subscribe to the theory that men and women are basically the same mentally, even if it's not really PC to do so.)

And what would you do if you woke up one day as a member of the opposite sex, and there was nothing else you could do to get your old, comfortable body back save sex reassignment? Woudl you do it?

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #343 ]

Re: 14

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