[ SECRET POST #2861 ]

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⌈ Secret Post #2861 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 052 secrets from Secret Submission Post #409.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Representation of Black People in Hollywood Films

[(Anonymous)]

So here's something I don't get: how are black people lacking representation in film? The BBC reports that "black actors were cast in 14.1% of roles " and for female characters, "73% of all female characters were Caucasian, followed by African American (14%), Latina (5%), Asian (3%), other worldly (3%), and other (2%)."

Sources:
http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-28656531
http://womenintvfilm.sdsu.edu/files/2013_It's_a_Man's_World_Report.pdf

Yet the US Census reports that only 12.6% of the US population is African American.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Race_and_ethnicity

So from a US-persepctive (since we're talking about Hollywood) how are black people underrepresented? I can understand if there's a film set in Africa where it's been white-washed or cultural appropriation why people might be upset, but, if anything, it seems like black people are slightly OVER-represented.

I ask because I'm an Arab woman who recently was told to basically sit down and shut up for challenging a black woman on the issue of racism in media. And I think it's a bit unfair given that I'm basically given no representation (can anyone name a famous Arab actress on the level of the many black actresses).

I don't know…am I wrong here? I get that Arab women are a much smaller proportion of the population in the US but I'm a little tired of being told that my experiences "don't compare" to that of black women and that I'm not allowed to have an opinion. Especially when it seems like they're so much better off representation-wise than I am..

Now, I fully admit that whites have it best. But white people aren't the ones telling me I'm in the wrong here. They'll usually agree with me that the representation of Arabs is terrible and that Arab women are basically invisible.

Re: Representation of Black People in Hollywood Films

[(Anonymous)]

I agree with you WRT the stuff about being told to sit down and shut up, because that is dumb.

That said, even if % of actors being cast in roles roughly mirrors population percentage, that does not mean that there are no problems with representation - representation is also a problem of what kind of roles people get to play, who is being cast in lead roles, etc. I mean, I don't think it would be all that good for representation if there was a black guy in every movie but he was always the sidekick or the first person to die.

Re: Representation of Black People in Hollywood Films

[(Anonymous)]

Not to mention the fact that sometimes in shows/movies set in diverse places like New York City, there are hardly any black or other minorities in them. It has gotten better in recent years though.

Re: Representation of Black People in Hollywood Films

[kallanda_lee]

Yeah, I think that is a better wording. While you do see black people in Hollywood films, they are almost always sidekicks, "best friends", minor characters.

I have no numbers, but I have a feeling that if you named Hollywood features with a black protagonist and a white sidekick, the percentage would be far lower.

That being said, it really sucks this woman was playing oppression Olympics with an Arab woman of all people.

Re: Representation of Black People in Hollywood Films

[dreemyweird]

Seconding this. So many black characters are written in a horribly cliche-y way. And I bet the figures would change dramatically if we were talking about black main protagonists.

That being said, people who tell you they "have it worse" and that hence you aren't allowed to have an opinion are either shitty or stupid, whatever their skin colour.

Re: Representation of Black People in Hollywood Films

[(Anonymous)]

I guess I should point out that her reasoning that I had it better is because I'm "basically white" (since Arabs and Middle-Eastern people often check off "white" on the census). Well…I have to say someone should have informed the white people I grew up with of that…

I'll admit though that I might have gotten a bit annoyed. I ended up telling her that even if she thinks that's the case, the issue of representing white women/black men couples on TV, for example, is still far more controversial than the reverse even though they're far more common in real life. And it just devolved from there….

But…yeah…you're right that it is a bit simplistic to go by pure numbers. So it probably isn't a very fair point to bring that up.

Re: Representation of Black People in Hollywood Films

[(Anonymous)]

That's a really awful and ignorant response. In the past ten years, there's been a lot of racism against Arab-Americans and a lot of hate crimes committed against them, and it's really not right for her to dismiss that.

Re: Representation of Black People in Hollywood Films

[(Anonymous)]

I can't feel sorry for there being so many black character's cast as a flamboyant, jive-talking, pimp. They just look so damn stylish. You show me a white person that is half as good in that role, or even half as stylish at all, and we'll let it go. Blacks managed to come up with the single greatest expression of pure cool the human race every generated or is ever likely to generate, and they'll just have to live with that. Damn straight!

Re: Representation of Black People in Hollywood Films

[(Anonymous)]

It depends. A lot of black characters are in roles in "black movies" where everyone is black, and many of those never see mainstream theaters because movies with white leads dominate the box office. A movie could have 13 black leads and be watched by 5% of the population, and a movie could be a Hollywood blockbuster that's watched by every other person in the United States starring one white guy. You can't only measure by numbers.

Re: Representation of Black People in Hollywood Films

[(Anonymous)]

Asian POC here.

That does seem kind of silly. While I wouldn't engage that particular person (or anyone who tells you to sit down and shut up because you're not the "right" kind of POC), I'd point out that there's no reason to try and shut down other minorities like this because it's not a zero sum game. Your issues with representation of Arab women in media doesn't take away from the validity of people who have issues with the representation of black women in media.

But... and here's the important part... I'd stay away from "but you guys have it better than I do" because framing the discussion of race and media as an Oppression Olympics never works and ultimately, it's a pointless distraction. As I said, it's not a zero sum game. Yes, it would be better if minorities didn't stamp on one other's heads in their struggle to get recognition, but that's about all you can say on the topic. You cannot get involved in a pissing contest about who has it worse, it's a non starter.

Re: Representation of Black People in Hollywood Films

[(Anonymous)]

I agree this is an important topic and deserves discussion... but I'm just so damn tired of seeing race discussions in GC. They always, always descend into wank, with people on both sides being complete assholes. Sigh.

Re: Representation of Black People in Hollywood Films

[(Anonymous)]

As someone from a country where the biggest minority group is currently Arabic I think you probably have enough to complain about. Half my class was Arabic and at some point we ended up watching Achmed the dead terrorist. It was horrible you could see half the class stiffening. I could have punched the dipshit who put that on. And that still pretty much flies in Hollywood standards. I can't really see how being represented only as terrorists would be better then the shit black people get. Not saying that the shit black people get is irrelevant but the shit you get isn't either.

Re: Representation of Black People in Hollywood Films

[(Anonymous)]

To be honest, Arab people have it way worse in American now than black people at the moment. And people who are mistaken for Arab/Muslim. (A black women threw a Sikh Indian man into an oncoming train a few years ago in NYC and he died :/) Then you have that Sikh temple that was shot up in Wisconsin a few years ago because the nutjob thought it was an Islamic temple. Then you have the whole "omg you're a terrorist!" bullshit.

Re: Representation of Black People in Hollywood Films

[chardmonster]

Arab people have it way worse in American now than black people at the moment.

Hahaha what

Yeah the only time the cops acted suspicious of my very visibly Arab father [complete with tan, big nose, and full beard] was the border patrol coming back from Niagara Falls. And that was just a car search that lasted about twenty minutes. It was awful, but... please tell your average black dude that's worse than what he goes through. I dare you.

I mean fuck your only examples are SIKHS

Re: Representation of Black People in Hollywood Films

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah those Sikhs man, they're such a joke.

Re: Representation of Black People in Hollywood Films

[chardmonster]

No, I'm saying clearly things aren't as bad for ARABS IN AMERICA as they are for BLACK PEOPLE, especially when the only examples OP has are PEOPLE FROM AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT ETHNIC GROUP

I mean please, when was the last time an unarmed Arabic guy was shot by American cops?

Do you think all Arabs are Muslim? Do you think all Muslims are obviously Muslim?

Re: Representation of Black People in Hollywood Films

[(Anonymous)]

Tonight has been educational.

Re: Representation of Black People in Hollywood Films

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, no, Arab people have totally had an awesome time in America since 9/11. You're totally right. Those people who were murdered for mistakenly being thought of as Muslim, nawwww, that's totally nothing dawg.

Re: Representation of Black People in Hollywood Films

[chardmonster]

Compared to the plight of black people, yeah.

Those people who were murdered for mistakenly being thought of as Muslim, nawwww, that's totally nothing dawg.

I see we're still doing the Arab = Muslim thing, which is all the proof I need that you're an idiot who has no idea what they're talking about.

Re: Representation of Black People in Hollywood Films

[(Anonymous)]

Are you really going to sit there and say that, in America, there isn't a widespread belief that Arab = Muslim and Muslim = terrorist, and that that hasn't caused problems for people of Arabic descent? I mean, are you really gonna fucking say that?

No, Arab-Americans don't have it as bad as black Americans, but there's still been an increase in racially motivated crimes committed against Arabs or people who are perceived to be Arabs in the years since 9/11. And you dismissing it as "oooooh but those weren't really Arabs oooooooh" is you deliberately obfuscating the point, which is that the term "Arab" has developed negative connotations. The fact that a lot of of people who are of Arabic descent get read as "white" or that a lot of people who are not of Arabic descent get read as "Arab" doesn't change that.

Re: Representation of Black People in Hollywood Films

[chardmonster]

As an Arab woman myself: Kathy Najimy. And yes, you do know who she is.



There's more. The thing is that most assume they're Italian or Greek. Which makes sense, because that's what happens in real life too.

Anyway: often the problem is the quality of representation, rather than the numbers--sure, there's a relatively large percentage, but if it's mostly comic relief or stereotypes that really isn't good.

However, I doubt the person shouting you down realizes that. Someone whose response to an argument is just "shut up" rather than arguing back or simply ignoring you is probably a moron.

Re: Representation of Black People in Hollywood Films

[(Anonymous)]

1) African-American is The American Minority, and people are pissy if they get told to care for more than one ethnic group getting treated shittily. Yes, that's a wrong reason.

2) Slavery. White American guilt. Yeah, that's a slightly better reason.

Arabs aren't discriminated against

[(Anonymous)]

Chard said so.

Re: Arabs aren't discriminated against

[chardmonster]

I'm trying to decide if you're some white kid talking over people or a fellow Arab American who feels left out of POC politics because nobody's said anything racist to you personally. Odds are I've seen more anti-Arab racism than you ever have considering I was a teenager during 9/11. Still, please show me an Arab American who's been shot by the cops for being Arab and therefore suspicious. No? Okay.

Don't you have some long diatribe against the movie Aladdin to blog?

Re: Representation of Black People in Hollywood Films

[(Anonymous)]

I agree that "sit down and shut up" was not a helpful response, but not all representation is equal, either. There are actually a not insignificant number of well-known Arab American actors, but most of them are flying under the radar because they're not specifically playing an Arab character. So, people might see Wendie Malick or Tony Shalhoub or Kathy Najimy every day, and not realize that there are any Arab American actors on television. Most black actors and actresses don't pass as white, and too many roles are stereotypes. So, the goal in both cases is more realistic, positive representation.