[ SECRET POST #2867 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2867 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 088 secrets from Secret Submission Post #410.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - random image ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[siofrabunnies]

Bullying was such a huge problem throughout the story. Griffindors/Slytherins bullied each other due to a tense house rivalry, Hufflepuffs bullied Harry for stealing Cedric's thunder during the Triwizard Tournament, people bullied Luna for being, well, Luna.

I did get a sense of Griffindor favoritism from quite a lot of people. And the Griffindors bullied Harry for getting even more (perceived) favoritism from Dumbledore.

God, I'm glad I don't spend my days surrounded by teenagers anymore.

[(Anonymous)]

*Gryffindor

[(Anonymous)]

Having actually been bullied, I can assure you that 90% of what you're talking about from the books is not "bullying".

[nyxelestia]

From both a former bully and former bullying victim, I concur.

[(Anonymous)]

I'd count it a minor miracle if people would get over the idea that every time someone in middle school was mean to them it meant they were being bullied. Sometimes people are just dicks to each other, but actual bullying is at a different level.

[nyxelestia]

The way I differentiate is a.) power differential and b.) sustainment.

The power differential doesn't have to be formal - i.e. if you're dealing with two students in the same class or grade level, one having no friends and the other being popular can definitely be a severe and important social power imbalance. Basically, is the victim in a position where they are legitimately prevented by external forces* from protecting themselves or ending the bullying?

* = I emphasize the external forces thing because as much as I an empathize with feeling paralyzed or so afraid that you're unable to speak, human beings are not mind readers, and not everyone knows what those things even look like, let alone how to spot them when you aren't actually expecting them

The other thing is how long it lasts. If someone trying to hurt me in passing is very different from someone trying to do that repeatedly over a long period of time. It's still a bad thing, but that doesn't mean it's bullying.

Not every instance of miscommunication, tactlessness, or outright dickishness is automatically bullying. I fucking hate how it gets overused specifically because I hate how the overusage devalues the meaning of the word over time. Goddamnit, we have enough actual bullying problems in the world, let's not add on more or create mountains out of molehills, here.

/rant

[ketita]

I think some of the same 'devaluing' issue is happening with abuse, too. It's gotten to the point where almost any instance of a character being at all violent (even as a one-off)(even in series full of violence) or the least bit not nice is pointed at as 'abuse'.

[nyxelestia]

I'm not going to lie, I don't even take 'abuse' or 'bullying' warnings on Tumblr or most fanfics seriously, these days, because apparently everything other than 100% supportiveness and niceness is abuse or bullying. It's creating a vicious cycle, too, where people can't handle mild insult or constructive criticism because they've been raised to interpret those things as abusive behaviors all their lives.

[ketita]

It's true. While I get that not everybody wants concrit, I've noticed people getting really defensive over anything that remotely sounds like criticism, or like you say, freaking out over even mild insults.
Bullying and abuse are both serious issues, and they definitely need awareness and systems to take care of them.
But sometimes I see this posts about how "oh my parents are mistreating me so bad" and I just... it's not remotely mistreatment.
Sometimes people just need to grow a thicker skin.

[nyxelestia]

I just gave up after a saw a Tumblr post with someone complaining about the mistreatment from their parents because their Internet access and time was cut down due to bad grades. -_-

[ketita]

I've seen posts how because parents don't take interest in the kid's fandom (like, squeeing over whatever character's perfection)or want to listen to them talk about it endlessly they're mistreating them.

[nyxelestia]

...

*headdesk*

[siofrabunnies]

I don't like the implication that I wasn't bullied. I was, and badly. I can assure you, that giving someone harsh glares because they're not from your house (Hufflepuffs to Gryffindors during Tournament), or getting the half the school to wear a "Name Stinks" badge, ore repeatedly stealing someone's possessions and throwing them into the ceiling, or holding a person upside down, showing everyone their underwear are all, indeed, bullying of varying degrees.

[(Anonymous)]

+1 Just because Rowling didn't show bullying like is reported in the news media nowadays doesn't mean what she wrote wasn't bullying.

[(Anonymous)]

You don't understand. Only anon's unhappiness is valid.

[nyxelestia]

Speaking as someone who's been on both sides of bullying, the harsh glares thing (as you describe it here) is a rivalry, especially given that it was a House vs House thing, not a Person vs House thing. It wasn't Harry vs Hufflepuff, it was Gryffindor vs Hufflepuff (and Harry and Cedric, themselves, got along).

The rest of those behaviors are absolutely bullying...and not really what I object to when I get pissed off at people saying Harry is a bully in the fifth book. His existential crisis in the fifth book was basically the horror of discovering his father was a bully in school. Did anyone miss that even Sirius talked about James growing up and away from this behavior as a good thing? And really, are we going to try and put Malfoy and Harry's rivalry on the same scale as bullying then they are fighting a war and contending with higher or other powers through most of their fights? Absolutely, Harry did occasionally lash out unnecessarily at his friends, which he shouldn't have done. But they never let that behavior stand, and he was traumatized as hell, did not belittle or try to psychologically degrade them, and changed his behavior over the year. I do not call that even remotely close to bullying, and it pisses me off every time I see someone refer to the stupid actions of a teenager with PTSD as bullying.

[(Anonymous)]

This.

[siofrabunnies]

I don't think Harry was a bully, not in the slightest. If I implied that, sorry for the confusion! He was a kid doing his best in horrible situations, and everyone was looking to a traumatized teenager to save the world.

I still think the House rivalries went too far. Mind, I'm speaking in terms of overall rivalries over time, not just one person against another. As you say, Harry and Cedric had no problems with each other, it was the rest of the houses, and giving glares isn't bullying. That was overstating the case.

But Harry/Ron/Hermione vs Draco, was bullying: slurs, constantly calling out the Weasleys' station, putting on the Dementor costume during a Quidditch match. I don't see how there being a war makes Draco not a bully, or means that the bullying isn't important.

Slytherin and Gryffindor's rivalry was way too heated and went way too far. The Mauraders vs Snape, the Harry/Ron/Hermione/Neville vs Draco/Crabbe/Goyle, Snape vs Harry/Hermione, Millicent vs Hermione, etc. It seemed sometimes to me that part of being Gryffindor or Slytherin was getting into an "us vs them" that too often delved into real hatred and harm.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

The Dementor costume thing was especially fucked up and I don't see how anyone could see that as not bullying. Hell, it almost bordered on attempted murder considering that they knew Harry had a severely negative reaction to Dementors (since he passed out the first time) and they must have known that he could have fallen off his broom and to his death without intervention.

[nyxelestia]

I think this might be a difference in definitions right there, because that last set of interactions you described are not interhouse rivalries, but rivalries between individuals. I'm talking interhouse rivalries like people shittalking each other before Quidditch matches and the Hufflepuff vs Gryffindor bullshit from the fourth book. That isn't good behavior, but that doesn't mean it's bullying. Not all bad or abusive behavior is bullying, and I just object to people using it as a blanket term when it really, really isn't.

[siofrabunnies]

That's fair. I agree that the basic house rivalries aren't necessarily bad, and it's only individuals who take it too far. Shittalking is just a thing that happens.

Gryffindor vs Slytherin, though. It might be individuals, but there's too many individual-Gryffindor vs individual-Slytherin problems, and those seem to be far worse than from other houses, for me to think the house cultures aren't at least partly at fault.

[nyxelestia]

I can see where you're coming from, but most of that really did seem to be a combination of personal rivalries and the impact of the war, rather than just a matter of House rivalry. When it boiled down to House interaction (i.e. Quidditch cups), the rivalry was pretty tame. Only when personal stuff got involved did it turn nasty, and turn into something other than a House vs House issue.