fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2868 ]

[ SECRET POST #2868 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2868 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 075 secrets from Secret Submission Post #410.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

So just...don't pay. And don't read. It'll become one of the thousands of abandoned fics on FFnet. You act like updates are going to happen, like the author is going to continue. Instead of "forcing" the author to continue, maybe think of it as a reason TO continue instead of just stopping.

But I don't get the impression from the secret that this is about the author stopping, or readers forcing them to continue? If I've missed where it says the fic would've been abandoned if not for the payments, then I apologize. But if they're already saying that they won't change the overarching plot too much to fit requests, it doesn't sound like the fic is being abandoned.

It sounds much more like the author's realized they can make a quick buck off their readers and is trying their luck. Which is their prerogative, but a pretty shitty thing to do with an ongoing fic imo.

Yeah it says in the first two lines of the secret that the writer "made all their stories pay to update. They will only write further chapters on commission." So essentially writer is forcing people like secret OP into paying if they want a continuation of stories, but despite them paying they only get minimal say. Which is really shitty imho.

But that still implies that it's the author's choice, doesn't it? In that it's a money-making exercise rather than fans going "We'll pay you to continue this fic you've abandoned!" Something along the line, be it a review ("I'd pay for this!" hyperbole?) or bad advice, has made them think this is a viable thing to do.

I guess I'm just seeing a difference between the whole 'writers owe nothing' argument, and what this particular writer is doing. As in, if the author hadn't gotten this crazy idea into their heads to charge money, they'd still be writing for reviews or attention or whatever the rest of us do.

The author has control to a point, but for how long? Eventually they will have to pander to paying customers, because these people will be paying for a product and have certain expectations. That's why I don't see this writers model for sales working out. IE What's to stop people paying for different chapters and wanting to change stuff drastically and first person paying gets pissed? Or writer panders more to one person paying then another, and there's a shitstorm this way? It'd maybe be one thing to sell fanfics on request, but preexisting ones that each person who pays will have a say in? I see there being a clash (either them overly give in and people will hate the works, or they will balk and refuse to make changes the people paying want so they lose people that way) and them losing readership.

I guess my dislike for this method is it's one thing to want reviews or attention, you'll get that with almost any fanworks. But it's super questionable when you take your readership hostage in a sense and demand payment for preexisting works works. If you demand reviews and attention and don't get it, there's liable to be some fans temporarily pissy but they'll forget about it. You demand money and don't produce good results it's going to be messy.

"Eventually they will have to pander to paying customers, because these people will be paying for a product and have certain expectations." That whole line of reason on how it would lead to failure depends on how the commission is done. I would hope anyone offering commissions would think through how to offer them.

"you take your readership hostage in a sense" How is this hostage? Explain to me how an author can take their own writing hostage by not sharing it.

It's not there own writing though really. It's fan fiction and by all means someone elses work. I don't care how AU it is, it's still someone else characterization and to a point world they are using. So no matter how you want to fight it, it's not really their work to start with.

Fan fiction is not something to make profit on.

It'd be like someone on tumblr becoming popular and then refusing to make any gifs until they got paid. They aren't the actors, or the show, or the animators. It's a fan work meant for enjoyment.

Go look at the cookies metaphor below.

The problem with your cookie metephor is that the cookie is just fucking cookie and does not equate to what we are speaking of. We are speaking about taking someone elses work as your own and getting paid for it. It really doesn't matter who wants the cookie/fanfiction at all. If someones selling it it's shady as fuck, period.

Do you feel that way about fanart?

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-10 08:53 (UTC) - Expand

NAYRT

But that's just it, it's not that they're not sharing, they're conditionally sharing based on whether people pay them for it or not. They're perfectly willing to share if their conditions are met.

I think you've gotta stop thinking of this in terms of commissions and fanfiction and look at it from a business perspective.

Giving someone part of a product for one price, and then saying that she can't get the rest of the product unless she pays more (despite the original agreement involving only the initial price), is not good business practice. In the real world, with a real product, not only would customers be pissed, but that business could face legal trouble.

Someone starting a fanwork for one price (in this case, for free), and then changing the pricing after the fact, is more analogous to that than to cookies.

Yeah. I'll admit that I've never seen anyone offering fic commissions get many takers in the first place, but they've always offered standalone works that are written for that specific commissioner. So while the writer can, if that's the agreement, post the work elsewhere etc. all the story elements are tailored to that one person.

I agree that there's no way that writing individual chapters of the same fic for different people is heading for a massive clusterfuck. Delivering an unsatisfactory paid product has a whole different set of issues to delivering unsatisfactory free content. And if the author already has a plot in place, then how much of their own requests can feasibly be incorporated anyway?

Still feels less like a well-thought out plan and more "Hey, someone said they'd pay for this fic, I can make a few bucks here!"

Yeah I agree. I feel like someone told the writer "You should get paid, because you're writing and writing is hard work and writers get paid" but the legalities behind this being someone elses works didn't cross their mind or they don't give two fucks about it.

It probably would have been better for them to make up a weak excuse and said they can't do anymore writing until they raise money for x reason and crowd funded rather then go this route. Probably would have got more money too that way.

But it seems like something OP wants, and I can't blame them exactly. Sometimes it would be nice to be able to get an author to go on with a fic. I just find the writers strong arming the readers into paying shady as fuck. And there is a huge difference between writers abandoning fics and writers demanding payment for fics.

And yes, essential updates could happen if you pay the writer, so it's not entirely out of the question.

Another thing I find problematic about the set up this writer is doing is different payees/readers will want different things of stories and the writer will have to pander to the paying customer to a point (if they don't they'll fail miserably no doubt) and I sense stories could become convoluted by different patrons wishes. It just seems destined to become extremely messy.

And there is a huge difference between writers abandoning fics and writers demanding payment for fics.

Thiiiiiis. The latter smacks of blackmailing readers, honestly. Which isn't all that different to what "I don't update until I get reviews!" OP is doing in another secret today, but at least they're not blackmailing with costs that could have RL repercussions. Can't you also see some underage fan using Mommy or Daddy's credit card or PayPal and everything going to shit?

Yeah I mean it's one thing to demand reviews and not come through, not much lost there. But I can see this writer possibly getting into some pretty damn messy situations.

Can't you also see some underage fan using Mommy or Daddy's credit card or PayPal and everything going to shit?

Yeah I sense this happening if they don't deliver decent works. Or either someone being a jerk and having them write a lot and scam them by turning it into paypal.

Also I could see, depending on what they write for (especially a TV series or Book) if they get big and noticed or someone directly tells the author the author probably threaten to sue or start shit w/ them online. I could see GRRM doing that.

I could also see disgruntled people who paid and feel pissed off at what they got/didn't get reporting this shit out of spite.

It's a whole new can of worms when you're charging money for a product or service.

It's not a mess I'd like to get into, that's for sure.

Yeah even if they couldn't get there money back (ie if writers smart enough to make the people commissioning gift the money via paypal) I sense the pissed off readers starting wank about them in secret post, or elsewhere online and try and get people hating on them.

It's a lose lose situation. I'd be surprised if it works out well.

That's also one of the differences with fanart commissions vs fanfic commissions, I think.

With fanart you're taking a single moment or a single depiction, and to all intents and purposes the work itself can stand alone outside canon. You don't need to know the characters or its source, for example, to know that a piece of art is pleasing to you. The fact that fanfic relies so much on equally so much of canon for it to even make sense means that it can't ever stand alone to the same extent and more likely that book fandom creators especially are going to have a problem.

PayPal have shut down payments from copyright infringing sites before now, iirc. An anime sharing site a friend of mine used had to stop using them for payments. So one report to them from someone pissed off at/jealous of the author and there goes their entire account.

Didn't know paypal was cracking down on stuff like that.

Yeah even if the writer doesn't use paypal I suppose there are ways that people could try and get money back, via a credit card or bank or etc. Maybe they wouldn't get the money back but they can surely cause the writer a lot of headaches. And really, I doubt a banks going to care that you say you wrote the person a fanfic so you did give them something. Especially if they post it to FF.net, A03, tumblr, or a website. They'll be pretty screwed in proving it, even with email proof.

It's happened a few times over the years, so I have no idea whether they're actually cracking down or just responding when they're made aware of things. My guess is the latter, which would make this sort of situation even more precarious. One asshat reporting you is all you'd need.

Technically you tried to sell something you weren't legally allowed to sell in the first place, so yeah, good luck getting banks to take you seriously if you complain.

Where is this knee-jerk Fanfic Is Evil And Must Be Reported stuff coming from? I keep seeing it. I never hear about pissed off fans and fellow artists causing trouble for fanartists who offer commissions.

A promiment scanlator in my fandom just had Tumblr ban them thanks to a complaint from a disgruntled fan that they weren't scanlating things to their exact shipping taste (same ship, even, just different top/bottom preference). I don't know that many fanartists, but one that I do recently had issues with underage fans accessing their NSFW work and ensuing wank about reporting them for knowingly allowing minors access to porn.

This sort of shit happens.

So why would it people assume it'd be different for fanfic, then? I'd assume fanfic commissions would be treated the same as fanart commissions.