fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2873 ]

[ SECRET POST #2873 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2873 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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02.

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03.

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04.

[Naruto]

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05. [ SPOILERS for Doctor Who ]

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06. [ SPOILERS for Doctor Who ]

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07. [ SPOILERS for Doctor Who ]

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08. [ SPOILERS for Spartacus ]

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09. [ WARNING for suicide ]

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10. [ WARNING for child abuse ]

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11. [ WARNING for child porn ]

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12. [ WARNING for sexual assault ]

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13. [ WARNING for rape ]

[Doctor Who]

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14. [ WARNING for rape ]

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15. [ WARNING for rape ]

[Days of Our Lives]

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16. [ WARNING for rape ]

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17. [ WARNING for rape ]

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18. [ WARNING for incest ]

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19. [ WARNING for suicide ]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #410.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

All the people should read this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/25/magazine/25desire-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&

"Meana has learned too from her attempts as a clinician to help patients with dyspareunia. Though she explained that the condition, which can make intercourse excruciating, is not in itself a disorder of low desire, she said that her patients reported reduced genital pain as their desire increased. The problem was how to augment desire, and despite prevailing wisdom, the answer, she told me, had “little to do with building better relationships,” with fostering communication between patients and their partners. She rolled her eyes at such niceties. She recalled a patient whose lover was thoroughly empathetic and asked frequently during lovemaking, “ ‘Is this O.K.?’ Which was very unarousing to her. It was loving, but there was no oomph” — no urgency emanating from the man, no sign that his craving of the patient was beyond control.

“Female desire,” Meana said, speaking broadly and not only about her dyspareunic patients, “is not governed by the relational factors that, we like to think, rule women’s sexuality as opposed to men’s.” She finished a small qualitative study last year consisting of long interviews with 20 women in marriages that were sexually troubled. Although bad relationships often kill desire, she argued, good ones don’t guarantee it. She quoted from one participant’s representative response: “We kiss. We hug. I tell him, ‘I don’t know what it is.’ We have a great relationship. It’s just that one area” — the area of her bed, the place desolated by her loss of lust.

The generally accepted therapeutic notion that, for women, incubating intimacy leads to better sex is, Meana told me, often misguided. “Really,” she said, “women’s desire is not relational, it’s narcissistic” — it is dominated by the yearnings of “self-love,” by the wish to be the object of erotic admiration and sexual need. Still on the subject of narcissism, she talked about research indicating that, in comparison with men, women’s erotic fantasies center less on giving pleasure and more on getting it. “When it comes to desire,” she added, “women may be far less relational than men.”

Like Chivers, Meana thinks of female sexuality as divided into two systems. But Meana conceives of those systems in a different way than her colleague. On the one hand, as Meana constructs things, there is the drive of sheer lust, and on the other the impetus of value. For evolutionary and cultural reasons, she said, women might set a high value on the closeness and longevity of relationships: “But it’s wrong to think that because relationships are what women choose they’re the primary source of women’s desire.”

Meana spoke about two elements that contribute to her thinking: first, a great deal of data showing that, as measured by the frequency of fantasy, masturbation and sexual activity, women have a lower sex drive than men, and second, research suggesting that within long-term relationships, women are more likely than men to lose interest in sex. Meana posits that it takes a greater jolt, a more significant stimulus, to switch on a woman’s libido than a man’s. “If I don’t love cake as much as you,” she told me, “my cake better be kick-butt to get me excited to eat it.” And within a committed relationship, the crucial stimulus of being desired decreases considerably, not only because the woman’s partner loses a degree of interest but also, more important, because the woman feels that her partner is trapped, that a choice — the choosing of her — is no longer being carried out.

A symbolic scene ran through Meana’s talk of female lust: a woman pinned against an alley wall, being ravished. Here, in Meana’s vision, was an emblem of female heat. The ravisher is so overcome by a craving focused on this particular woman that he cannot contain himself; he transgresses societal codes in order to seize her, and she, feeling herself to be the unique object of his desire, is electrified by her own reactive charge and surrenders. Meana apologized for the regressive, anti-feminist sound of the scene.

Yet while Meana minimized the role of relationships in stoking desire, she didn’t dispense with the sexual relevance, for women, of being cared for and protected. “What women want is a real dilemma,” she said. Earlier, she showed me, as a joke, a photograph of two control panels, one representing the workings of male desire, the second, female, the first with only a simple on-off switch, the second with countless knobs. “Women want to be thrown up against a wall but not truly endangered. Women want a caveman and caring. If I had to pick an actor who embodies all the qualities, all the contradictions, it would be Denzel Washington. He communicates that kind of power and that he is a good man.”

After our discussion of the alley encounter, we talked about erotic — as opposed to aversive — fantasies of rape. According to an analysis of relevant studies published last year in The Journal of Sex Research, an analysis that defines rape as involving “the use of physical force, threat of force, or incapacitation through, for example, sleep or intoxication, to coerce a woman into sexual activity against her will,” between one-third and more than one-half of women have entertained such fantasies, often during intercourse, with at least 1 in 10 women fantasizing about sexual assault at least once per month in a pleasurable way.

The appeal is, above all, paradoxical, Meana pointed out: rape means having no control, while fantasy is a domain manipulated by the self. She stressed the vast difference between the pleasures of the imagined and the terrors of the real. “I hate the term ‘rape fantasies,’ ” she went on. “They’re really fantasies of submission.” She spoke about the thrill of being wanted so much that the aggressor is willing to overpower, to take. “But ‘aggression,’ ‘dominance,’ I have to find better words. ‘Submission’ isn’t even a good word” — it didn’t reflect the woman’s imagining of an ultimately willing surrender."

That's about the study cited in the secret.

I don't have a negative attitude toward sex, but I want a man to want me, I don't want to come forward myself. That's why I enjoy that trope.

We get it. You feel your personal fantasy is academically justified. Not sure why you need that, but hey.

Now, how about you quit trying via wall-of-academic-text to imply that "women" feel like that as a rule and let those of us who don't have any problem expressing our sexual desires do it our way?

Are you pretending to be retarded or what? Every corner of the internet there's some asshole wanting authors to 'acknowledge X was raped' or 'why does this work gloss over the rape like it's nothing' or 'why do fans say it's not rape' well duh, that's why. They recognize their fantasy played out before their eyes.

Also "don't have any problems expressing our sexual desires" nice try implying shit about me, eh.

Are you pretending to be retarded or what?

wow

If you're trying to have an intelligent conversation, maybe use of the pejorative "retarded" should be nixed. Debating with someone the maturity of a 10 year old on a playground isn't exactly inciting.

Nice evading the issue.

Maybe they feel they need that because there are plenty of judgmental assholes like you ready to immediately accuse them of having "problems."

Also, nothing they said, posted or linked to in any way denies you the right to "do it [your] way" (nor does it judge you for it the way you've judged the AYRT) so I have no idea where your persecution complex is even coming from.

Straight people. (in before 'not all straight people' and 'some gay people.' The article was generalizing so I'm generalizing too) lol. I can't really understand that. Why wouldn't someone want to give as good as they get? I'm not even going to touch anything else. I'm just like "what?"

Humans are selfish, news at 11.

The problem I have with this research is that it doesn't seem to take into account the sociocultural factors that play into Western sexuality. In cultural settings where women are viewed as sexual aggressors (and where boys and girls are taught their entire lives to view women as sexual aggressors), men appear to have much lower sex drives than women and lose sexual interest over the course of long-term relationships.

And this is also why I have problems with how so many people approach the topic in general. They tend to oversimplify it.

And what cultural setting is that some primitive tribe almost extinct? No thanks, as a straight woman I don't want that. I want to be chased, I don't care for doing the chasing.

Also "Western sexuality" lol, yaoi comes from Japan and it's got nothing of western sexuality and it's just what the article describes.

what does this have to do with who does the chasing? (at least, I've always heard that term used in terms of dating, not sex...)

It's also used for sex.

ok. well, as another straight woman I really do not want to just be "chased" without ever expressing my own desire.

And maybe that's not what you meant to imply with your comment, and we certainly don't have a culture of "women being sexual aggressors" by any means, but Western sexuality isn't so simple as "man wants woman, woman lets him have her". That may be what the media often portrays, but reality is more nuanced - there are a variety of women and men who want different sexual dynamics.

Edited 2014-11-16 02:06 (UTC)

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-16 02:17 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

diet_poison - 2014-11-16 04:49 (UTC) - Expand

"I don't have a negative attitude toward sex"

Uh huh.

You mad.

oh ffs. Someone (maybe you?) posted this last time we had this conversation too.

Anything that claims to be a universal understanding of how women operate sexually is bogus. It does not represent me and I know there are other women who feel the same way. Stop spreading shit like this, this is the stuff that feed into "but that's what women really want!!!1" rape apology. ugh.

I want a man to want me, but I sure as hell want to want HIM, too, and I want him to know it.

Edited 2014-11-15 22:06 (UTC)

Nowhere does that article claim to be have universal understanding of women though. It speaks in broad terms because the subject is very common, and you really cannot deny this, but it doesn't claim to be speaking for every single woman out there.

“Female desire,” Meana said, speaking broadly and not only about her dyspareunic patients

of female lust...an emblem of female heat

Women want

Doesn't claim outright, but it sure implies. And it even says lower on that only a certain percent of women have those fantasies, so why this author paints women with such a broad brush is beyond me.

The phrase "women want" followed by a depiction of ravishment/rape/dubcon/whathaveyou sounds eerily similar to the sentiment among many rape apologists IRL.

Given how women are shamed for this fantasy it's impossible to make an accurate number, but Twilight and 50 shades of grey sell like hotcakes, so making a broad generalization with this data makes sense.

(no subject)

diet_poison - 2014-11-16 04:40 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-16 05:00 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

diet_poison - 2014-11-16 09:02 (UTC) - Expand

Did you read the article? The man is erotic rape fantasies is wanted too. What's not wanted is having to express the desire verbally.

*in

Did you read my comment? I said, "and I want him to know it" for a REASON. I want to be ABLE to verbally express my desire for a guy. I want to take part of the sexual initiative.

People are different and want different things. There is no single conclusive "female sexuality" or "female desire".

Speak for yourself then and don't attack women who don't want that.

Nowhere did I attack women who wanted something different from me. In fact I feel I'm coming from the opposite direction - I feel uncomfortable with the implication that all women want to be ravished.

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