fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2926 ]

[ SECRET POST #2926 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2926 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 036 secrets from Secret Submission Post #418.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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A-fucking-men. I've been in fandom for some time and it's just gotten steadily harder to enjoy anything without some snowflake writing a meta essay on what I'm doing wrong by liking what I like, what kind of -archy I'm buying into and what -ism I'm guilty of. I'm over trying not to offend.

But what gives you any special rights to offend?

If you like something problematic, then fine, knock yourself out. But you are not immune from criticism and judgement for your choice. If you think you are, then that's where the problem lies.

tbh, pretty much anything you do will offend somebody out there. it isn't a right, but a result of interacting with people who hold different values than yourself.

now actively going out of your to offend people is one thing, but someone being offended doesn't mean that you need to listen to them.

Then don't? Let them write all the meta they want, if you're secure enough in your enjoyment of your problematic thing then it won't bother you what other people think of it, or by extension, you.

da

"a result of interacting with people who hold different values than yourself"

Then so is the possibility that problematic things you enjoy will cause other people to react and criticize. You and what you love do not exist within a vacuum, so why should you and what you love be exempt from criticism?

You can take whatever you choose -- including nothing at all -- from the criticism, but they have every right to say it. If everything isn't open for criticism, then nothing is, and that's far more into Fandom Police territory than someone calling out problematic shit.

And what gives you the special right to go into someone's squee space and read them a riot act over what they're enjoying? What gives you the right to be actually offended over someone else's entertainment choices?

See, it's this whole culture of Fandom Police that gets right up my nose. If I'm happily nattering about, for instance, the latest Dresden Files, I don't need someone to tromp in and tell me how problematic it, and by extension I, am. Why should I give a shit if you find it problematic? Find it problematic somewhere else and leave me alone.

But if you have the right to enjoy something problematic, then someone else equally has the right to think it's an issue and that they have criticisms of those who do.

You can't have it both ways.

If you don't give a shit, then you wouldn't give a shit. The only reason people get pissed off when someone calls out something they like for having problems is because they want to be able to stay deluded or ignorant without being called out, which is intensely hypocritical. They don't want to be judged for liking something that people have every right to judge. You can either acknowlegde it's problematic, or you can suck it up and stay ignorant, but just like you have the right to like whatever you like, other people have the right to criticise it, and you. That's life.

If you like something that causes others' offence, then you're going to have to be prepared to deal with them expressing it.

nah, i get pissed off because while i'm usually aware of whatever -ism my entertainment choices are guilty of, people going out of their way to conflate enjoyment of problematic thing with the morality of the person who enjoys it is incredibly simplistic and reductist way of looking at things.

da

Except for all the times when it's not, and it's just assholes wanting to continue being assholes with assholish views, couched in the delusions and excuses.

lol okay

keep fighting that good fight then

And they are free to express it all they like. In their own space. I don't give a shit what they do in their own space. Have a party.

But if they come uninvited into my space and criticize it and me, then they fully deserve whatever derision and scorn I dish out, especially if they are a complete stranger. Because who asked them, anyway?

Polite disagreement is one thing. "This thing you like is terrible and you are terrible and should feel terrible for liking it" is quite something else.

Except it's not.

You can dish out scorn and derision towards their opinion, so it's still perfectly fair for them to say what they like. Just like you have to be prepared for criticism and judgement for liking something that has issues, then the person criticizing equally has to be prepared for your reaction to it.

But you're acting as though they don't have the right to criticize in the first place -- in any space they damn well choose -- which is bullshit. In fact, it's a slippery slope of "criticism of things I like can only take place in this narrowly defined way I allow it to happen" which is fucked up on many, many levels.

I will only dish out scorn and derision if they come uninvited into my space and start throwing loaded terms around. And if they're going to choose to come into my space and dish out something like that, then they'd better be prepared to take it right back, because I will not be shy about letting them have it with both barrels.

My "narrowly defined way" is "say what you like on the whole of the rest of the internet, but don't harsh my squee in my own space." And I'm pretty sure I have the right (since we seem to be tossing that word around a lot) to set parameters there.

Therein lies the crux of it. You have every right to CHOOSE problematic likes, and they have every right to CHOOSE to call you out on it.

If you can't see what's problematic about you basically saying "Don't shit in my backyard regardless of what I'm doing there because I say so!" then I'm not surprised people have issues with your other problematic likes. You are setting parameters for yourself that you would bitch at other people for having.

It's a little weird that you're so concerned about people being able call out other people for enjoying problematic things. Shouldn't that effort be focused on the content creator and not the consumer?

And this also seems concerningly close to scrupulosity-like behavior, that what people enjoy is reflective enough about what they actually believe in that you can attack their character for enjoying that. Especially when that's demonstrably false. (eg almost every woman who enjoy rape fantasties don't support irl rape.)

I think it's more weird that you apparently don't have any argument as to why the problematic things you enjoy should somehow be more exempt from criticism and scrutiny than anyone else's, just because you decide that's how it should be.

Nothing would ever be demonstrably false or accurate without the means and ability to challenge them in the first place. If you decide the things you enjoy are above challenge, reproach or criticism, then yes, that sort of attitude does reflect on your character.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2015-01-08 15:03 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2015-01-08 22:06 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2015-01-08 22:57 (UTC) - Expand

Grade A deflecting and derailing there. 10/10.

I hope that one day, people like you will spend their time calling out on actual issues and not harassing people for liking something FICTIONAL that may or may not be offensive (because in the end that depends on the values of each person).

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2015-01-08 22:09 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2015-01-08 23:21 (UTC) - Expand

But in tumblr, neither of you have a space! It's a huge nebulous cloud of reblogs and tags and someone else could easily throw your stuff into "their" space or their stuff into "your" space, and unless you sit down and hammer out a consistent set of rules for tagging and blacklist religiously, there is no way to maintain the integrity of a "space"!

And this shit right here is why I don't hang out on fucking tumblr.

Even then, I'm pretty sending asks counts as intruding in someone else's space.

By that account, someone sending you snail mail through the post box is "encroaching on your space."

Get the fuck over yourself.

No the same thing, because I can refuse/return snail mail without opening, while asks are direct.

Nayrt

So you're saying you have carte blanche to express any view you like and no one has the right to counter it because, well, this is just Your Space and you can Do What You Want with no consequences.

I hope you've never challenged someone's argument in your life in that case. Because otherwise you'd be a raving hypocrite who applies one standard of behavior to themselves and one to others.

If you express an opinion, it's fair game. Otherwise shut the fuck up, because that's what you expect anyone who holds a different point of view to you to do.

You're an idiot. That's not what I said. I don't mind polite disagreement. I love debate and discussion.

What I don't love is someone coming at me with their fangs out and throwing around -ists and -isms and accusing me of being a terrible person because I enjoy something that they consider "problematic," whether it is actually objectively problematic or not.

And if they do come into my space ranting and raving, well, then, they get to reap the consequence of that. Because, yeah, basically, do not shit in my backyard, because I will set that shit on fire and throw it right back in your face. If you want to be a raging asshole, do it on your space. Not mine.

But apparently the idea of basic manners has flown out the window that Social Justice tossed a brick through.

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