[ SECRET POST #2962 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2962 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.
[Final Fantasy IX]


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03.
[Gaia Online]


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04.
(Guardians of the Galaxy)


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05.
[Batman: Arkham City]


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06.
(Ming Na Wen)


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07.
[Terry Pratchett]


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08.
[The Fall]


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09.
[Markiplier's Youtube Let's Plays]


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10.
(Karen Gillan in Guardians of the Galaxy)













Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 014 secrets from Secret Submission Post #422.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

05. http://i.imgur.com/qt7lAF6.png
[Batman: Arkham City]

[(Anonymous)]

I feel you, OP. Honestly, the overwhelming amount of MANPAIN in Batman media has made it incredibly hard for me to like him. He's one of the most overrated characters ever, IMO. Maybe there are a few comics where they tone it down, but the films and the games that I've played have just been so bad in this aspect.

[(Anonymous)]

How is MANPAIN distinguished in this case from angst

[(Anonymous)]

He just never WORKS to get over it. He steeps and dwells in it and it's used as an excuse for being an asshole to people (one of the reasons I didn't like him in the Justice League cartoons). In Nolan's trilogy he only magically got over it at the very end, but the whole "becoming a recluse" thing was freaking annoying.

[(Anonymous)]

I would argue that has more to do with the nature of comic book characters than with the fact that he's a man? For two reasons, really. First, any change in comic books can only be temporary, because the next guy is only going to change it to something else. Second, characters have certain distinctive characteristics that people associate with them that they're going to keep returning to. And I think one of Batman's characteristics is that he's angsty. So, like, there are probably times he's worked to get over it (I don't have the encyclopedic knowledge of Batman continuity that EG Dethtoll has) but it's just going to go back to it because that's who Batman is.

And, hey, that's a reasonable reason to dislike a character, because he's too angsty.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, I don't mean manpain in the sense that he's a man. And I completely agree that it's due to the nature of the comic books a whole lot.

What I mean by manpain (women can also suffer from manpain) is a form of dark, brooding angst that a character not only doesn't get over but never takes any steps towards TRYING to get over it -- no therapy, isolates themselves, etc. And, most importantly, this "pain" is used as an excuse for why they're an asshole.

Batman frustrates me because he's not only one of the most Mary Sueish characters I've ever seen, but because his story plays up his trauma as an excuse to do unkind (or even horrible) things all the while he never even TRIES to move past it.

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, that's fair, and it seems like a correct observation about Batman.

I still think manpain is a stupid name for that thing, though.

[(Anonymous)]

This is so accurate, IA.

I wish they'd stop writing the character this way, because honestly - I LOVE the setting of Gotham city, I love all the villians, but Batman is getting to be tiring. Surely there's more than one way to write a character that isn't harking back to the 90s era of grim and gritty angst and brooding.

IDK, am I just being stupid to expect superheroes to be a bit more heroic and mature at times?

[dethtoll]

Actually in the comics Bruce can and does change and grow as a character. It's a process that takes years, both realtime and in comic time, but by the time the New 52 hit he's come a long way from the gruff loner of the post-Frank Miller era to a man who is capable of accepting help and truly cares about his extended "family." While New 52 walked that back some, he's still got an extended cadre of people he cares about aiding him in his war on crime, though he can and does make mistakes.

Part of the problem is a lot of writers simply don't seem to care about any of that and revert him back to Frank Miller's take.

[lb_lee]

What really bothers me about Batman is, not only does he never try, HE CAN'T. And I don't mean that on a character level either, I mean the framework of the comics he's in pretty much means he's NEVER going to be able to deal with it. Because then he'd actually get a life and calm the fuck down and become a lot less interesting for readers, and DC can't risk one of its big cash cows on a big personal change like that.

It's honestly why I can't really enjoy a LOT of the big stars of the Big Two. Because I know any development they make is limited. At least the D-listers, nobody cares enough about to stick them in the same place forever. (See: Guy Gardner, who's gone from sweater-wearing nice guy, to brain-damaged jingoistic asshole, to brain-healed asshole, to dark horse recovering asshole.)

--Rogan

[(Anonymous)]

Well... sometimes.

At his best, the trauma of his childhood is portrayed as a time of helplessness, powerlessness and loss that actually makes him more empathetic toward people. As the woman at my local comic shop once said, Superman saves strangers because he's a good man and it's the right thing to do. Batman does it because he doesn't want other people to suffer what he did.

'Course, then there's versions of him like in that game...

[(Anonymous)]

I grew up on BTAS, and Batman is one of my favorite superheroes, but I agree. So tired of the super gritty Gotham City and BAT MAN PAIN that gets constantly shoved into your face.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

I can take him if he's got some kind of a foil. Robin, Superman, even a sufficiently playful Catwoman, so long as they contrast with his endless angst. Arkham City tries to use Alfred for that, but a stiff upper lip and some deadpan smart-aleckery aren't enough to counter the emotional black hole that is Batman at his worst. (I actually wound up liking the Catwoman sections by comparison, and this game doesn't really give her a personality beyond "greedy.")

Re: OP

[dethtoll]

"Batman needs a Robin."

Re: OP

[lb_lee]

Here, here, OP. It's why I really like Alfred and Barbara and such. They give Batman someone to care about, something to soften him up. It's why I enjoy the cartoons way more than the Nolan movies; in the cartoons, you get episodes devoted to how much he cares about other characters, while the Nolan movies are primarily about his isolation.

--Rogan

[elaminator]

He did have a bit of humor though, didn't he? It was just...very dry, which seems to fit him.

At any rate, you're allowed to not like his personality. (I admittedly don't mind the angst so much with Batman, but I can see how it would get old for some people. That said, I still hate The Dark Knight Returns more than any comic I've read. Not that I've read that many, but still.)

I adore these games for lots of reasons, but they are a hell of a lot of fun even ignoring the story, so there's always that.

[dethtoll]

Some of my favourite Batman moments are when he makes a joke and you can't tell if he did or not.

"If you don't want to talk then why do you even have a second seat in the Batmobile?" "Balance."

[elaminator]

I wish I had something similar to link, but alas I do not. I however cherish those moments as well.

[intrigueing]

This gif and the comment you replied to are the reason I love Batman. When he's written right, he's SO AWESOME. Like, just perfection. (Unfortunately he's an easy character to write as lazily manpain-y.)

[lb_lee]

Yes! It's why I enjoyed JLU and BTAS--people make fun of Batman. And Batman sometimes makes fun of other people! You get to see Batman turned into a prepubescent boy (and be SO ANNOYED about it), and Batman troll Harley Quinn, and Batman totally fail at getting a good birthday present for Superman.

THAT is a Batman I can enjoy!

--Rogan

[(Anonymous)]

na

The Batman Adventures comic series was pretty good too (it tied in to BTAS and kept the spirit of it although it occasionally included some more mature themes since the medium lent itself better to it than a children targeted show. It lasted for over 10 years)

[caerbannog]

What are JLU and BTAS? Are they the cartoons where (going off a tumblr gifset) batman helps out a ?villian? ?young girl? ?on a swing? and also ?Harley? over a bad day?

(All the ? because I've not looked much into batman/supermanverse. Between the two, such boring turn-offs for me)

[nightscale]

I like Arkham City quite a lot but I can see where you're coming from, I guess when it comes to Batman I can take stupid amounts of brooding and shit because it's so often his mo in things(not saying this should always be the case or anything, just that I'm used to it).

Plus I just really enjoyed running around as Catwoman, that was the highlight of the game for me.

Transcript

[(Anonymous)]

Image: promo art of Batman and Catwoman standing back to back

Text: This is the first time I’ve loved a game while actively hating the story. Both this version of Batman and this version of Gotham seem to have been built entirely out of darkness and grit and broody scowling, with no room for human emotions beyond incredibly generic sadness and loss. I get that Batman’s supposed to be fixated on the Joker to the point that he has no other meaningful relationships, but he just feels like a block of wood when he interacts with people like Talia or Oracle, and that in turn makes their emotive reactions to him feel ludicrous by comparison. I just wanted some humor or lightheartedness, besides a gazillion jokes about torture and how the Joker literally wants to fuck Batman in the ass.

BS: I think the final death is the most fitting ending for that character in any medium.

[(Anonymous)]

I liked Arkham Asylum, but I couldn't bring myself to play Arkham City precisely because of what you describe. I watched my SO play for a few hours, and it just turned me off more and more. As in, I'd really get irritated at the sheer amount of irredeemable assholes and bad to the bone criminals. It hurt my faith in humanity, and I kept asking myself if this is the sort of image the core ausdience has in their minds when they think of prison inmates. and the thought disgusted me even more.