[ SECRET POST #2964 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2964 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 066 secrets from Secret Submission Post #424.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Real talk here

[feotakahari]

I'm probably going to regret asking this, but if Islam is so bad and dangerous, what do you say we should do about it? What action are you calling for?

(I have the suspicion your response will prompt Case to lock the thread.)

Re: Real talk here

[mekkio]

It's not. Really, it's not. It's just some of the cult factions are the ones that make everyone think it's awful.

Re: Real talk here

[mekkio]

To add, if it were really as bad as everyone says it is take this scenario in, imagine over one and half billion people (roughly how many Muslims on the planet) out to kill non-Muslims. (This is what some people believe.) If this were actually happening there would be multiple bombings and shooting all over the planet at every second. But there is not. Because the majority of Muslims are just regular work a day, go to school, live their lives people.

Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, exactly.

If every Muslim on the planet was evil and out to kill us all, we'd all already be dead, man.

Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

I just want people to stop telling me that it's wrong for me to hate Islam. I'm sorry, but I do. I hate it the same way I hate Republicanism. And I hate what Muslims did to my family (Armenian here). Not only that, but the genocide against part of my family has never been recognized, let alone apologized for.

Muslims are still human beings who deserve to practice their religions in peace and I would never advocate violence against them.

But I do hate Islam and I'm tired of being told it's wrong for me to hate it.

Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

Hate the specific sects of Islam and the specific cultures that encourage people to do awful shit in the name of religion. Not Islam as a whole.

Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

Why?

When black people say they hate white people, no one says "hate the specific cultures that enslaved you" or the specific people that enslaved you. No, they're told that it's perfectly fine to hate all white people. Even if being born white is something white people can't help.

Why shouldn't I hate a religion that murdered members of my family, never recognized/apologized for it, drove them from their homes? People CHOOSE to believe in it -- it's a belief/ideology.

Muslims can still be good people, but I still hate Islam.

Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

I kind of agree tbh. People make blanket statements about hating Christianity all the time, but they often don't get half as much shit as people do if they say the same thing about Islam. I don't like any form of organized religion.

(frozen comment) Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

When black people say they hate white people, no one says "hate the specific cultures that enslaved you" or the specific people that enslaved you. No, they're told that it's perfectly fine to hate all white people. Even if being born white is something white people can't help.

I would if I thought it was a view that I thought many people held seriously or that was likely to be particularly dangerous. I think it's certainly a wrong view. To the extent that it's an acceptable thing to say, it's because it's a proxy for a much more complicated set of positions, and a proxy that doesn't really play into much existing discrimination. I don't think either of those things is true in this case.

Why shouldn't I hate a religion that murdered members of my family, never recognized/apologized for it, drove them from their homes? People CHOOSE to believe in it -- it's a belief/ideology.

Well, if nothing else, because I think it's factually wrong to attribute that to Islam as such as though it were the sole sufficient cause of the Armenian genocide. Because that's a horrifying atrocity, yes, but one that's in the past and that's not really causally connected with your hatred now. You're hardly getting back at the people who did those things by hating Islam.

(frozen comment) Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

Because that's a horrifying atrocity, yes, but one that's in the past

holy fuck

you're that person who told a jewish anon to get over the holocaust a while back, aren't you?

(frozen comment) Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

i wouldn't say that to a jewish anon, and i'm not saying that to this person

i am saying that a jewish anon would not be justified in hating all Germans, which is I think an accurate analogy here

(frozen comment) Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

You and your bullshit double standards.

"One that's in the past" -- yeah like slavery isn't in the fucking past. At least white people fucking admitted that it happened. Which is more than I can say for any recognition my family got.

Oh and as though my grandparents didn't have to flee Aleppo for Lebanon because of this recurrent bullshit.

Fuck off.

(frozen comment) Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

Sorry I disagree with you I guess

Re: Real talk here

[feotakahari]

"When black people say they hate white people, no one says 'hate the specific cultures that enslaved you' or the specific people that enslaved you. No, they're told that it's perfectly fine to hate all white people. Even if being born white is something white people can't help."

As I recall, a whole bunch of people on FS were offended when someone talked about hating white people. (It was in the context of a show called American Horror Story.)

Personally, I feel like people have internalized "don't punch down" to the point that they tie themselves into ridiculous knots trying to prove that the punch they're throwing is actually punching up. You mentioned that you hate Republicans--a ton of their rhetoric is about how people on disability are faking being disabled, or people who make rape accusations weren't actually raped, or illegal immigrants are taking the privileges of citizens . . . It's all about showing that they're the underprivileged ones, no matter how many logical contortions they have to go through.

You've framed yourself as a genocide survivor, and Muslims as people you can punch up to. A Muslim might frame Christians as someone he can punch up to. But really, who gives a fuck whether it's punching up or down? Despite all the shit I went through in kindergarten, I think my teachers were right when they said hitting was wrong.

NAYRT

[(Anonymous)]

i don't even know what the hell you're trying to say here. it's a useless rambling mess of a post. clarify, please?

Re: NAYRT

[(Anonymous)]

It makes sense to me but it's using a pretty specific set of jargon and assumptions so I think that might be where the difficulty is coming in

Not sure I can really translate it

Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

Except I'm not fucking punching anyone.

Did I say we should wipe out Islam? No. Did I say that Islam should be banned/restricted? No. In fact, I specifically said that Muslims should be free to practice whatever they want peacefully. That they can be good people.

But fuck it -- I'm not going to stop hating Islam just because it's getting attacked. That doesn't make the ideology itself any better to me. And that doesn't make up for the loss of my family, the horrific shit my grandparents have gone through, the STRESS it put on my dad.

I would never advocate violence against Neo-Nazis or Republicans or Muslims (and no, I'm not equating them, I'm deliberately using different levels of people I disagree with, with Neo-Nazis obviously being the worst). But that doesn't mean I'm going to stop hating the ideology or hating the things that they've done.

I'll tolerate it. But that's it. I'm not going to stop hating it.

I'm not going to publicly criticize it because I don't want people to feel unsafe, but I'm not going to lie and pretend I have warm feelings for Islam when I don't.

Re: Real talk here

[philstar22]

Well, there is the genocide in Guatemala that the US helped and now refuses to acknowledged. And quite a few recent genocides that aren't acknowledged and were aided or not stopped by others. So there is a lot of that going around.

The world is a shitty place. There are bad Muslims just like there are bad Christians, bad Jews, and bad Atheists. And bad people in whatever other category you can think of.

Although, I think there is a difference between hating a religion and hating all the people who believe in it.

Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

And do you think I would tell Guatemalans that it's wrong for them to hate the US? No. Absolutely not. If anything, I'd say the best response would be "what can do? is there anything I can do?" And to recognize and APOLOGIZE for it. That might be a good first step.

But telling people it's WRONG to hate someone who helped commit a genocide against them?

FUCK THAT.

Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

+1

wherever you are, nonny, happy valentine's day from me to you, you can have all my hugs. <3

Re: Real talk here

[feotakahari]

"But telling people it's WRONG to hate someone who helped commit a genocide against them?

FUCK THAT."

I can't help but question your sudden switch from "I hate the religion, not the people! Muslims are people, too! I just hate Islam!" to "Muslims helped commit a genocide against me!"

(Oh God, this is gonna make you explode, but I actually sporfled when I thought of "Jews helped kill Jesus!")

Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

Well, with the US, I'd presume that a lot of the people responsible are still actually ALIVE and thus can be held accountable. Given that Armenian genocide is 100 years old, though, that's not gonna happen.

But the genocide of Armenians definitely has roots in religion and I don't see anything wrong with hating a set of ideas that got part of my family killed.

At the very least, it'd be nice if Turkey would recognize/apologize for it. But that's not going to happen so I'm not holding my breath.

If you want to know what set me off: the president of Turkey got on Obama's case for not saying anything about the killings about the three Muslim students. And while what happened to them is horrific and I do think Muslim people have the right to speak out, I don't think the PRESIDENT OF TURKEY, as a head of state, has any right to lecture Obama in this instance, the hypocritical FUCKER.

Re: Real talk here... (for Armenian Genocide Memorandum)

[(Anonymous)]

This is the year, isn't it?

Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

It's not Islam. Extremist are the issue in pretty much anything.
Right now we're just seeing in the news more about Isalmic extremist than of other groups and that (and the fact non-extremist Islamists don't get as much screentime in the news) makes Islam seem dangerous per se.
So the question should be what should we do about extremists, no about Islam.

Re: Real talk here

[(Anonymous)]

It's like saying the KKK or the Mason family make all white people bad and dangerous, or that Jewish people really poisoned the wells during the plague.