[ SECRET POST #2967 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2967 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 034 secrets from Secret Submission Post #424.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets (also too big anyway) ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[blitzwing]

...I really don't get the kind of selective thinking that allows so many people to talk about how evil/harmful/awful/causing!abuse FSOG is, and then turn around and write all kinds of rape-gorn fanfic. Fiction is harmless! When they do it. But not when it becomes popular and everyone is talking about it, I guess.

Don't feel bad for liking it OP.

[(Anonymous)]

To be fair, you have people like me who don't like rape-porn fic either. I mean, that's what Fifty Shades comes from.

[blitzwing]

I know, not everyone is like that, and I wouldn't even have mentioned it if I didn't know so many people like that myself. Like, how does it not trigger cognitive dissonance?

[(Anonymous)]

One could argue that people writing for themselves and sharing only with others with similar interests in a smaller scale, with no profit-driven marketing (therefore no advertising and dressing up something as desirable whether it is or not), and where there's more access to discussion is healthier.

Me, I think they're all hypocrites and hate both the book and rape porn.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Also everyone in those circles usually admits to liking rape porn. Fics are labeled with rape warnings. It's self aware at least, whether you like that kink or not

50 shades dressed up as "a romance" is the problem, not the fact that it exists or that women enjoy it. It's misrepresented

[blitzwing]

How is FSOG doing anything that makes the romance label inaccurate? Romances have been (historically) chock full of skeevy male love interests, consent issues, and outright rape.

[I'm not arguing the case, I'm genuinely curious if there's something I'm missing here, re: romance genre.]

[(Anonymous)]

It's not that it's not romance, it's that its porn with romance

There are literally women on the news denying that it's fantasy porn at all and it's ~just a love story

Then can you blame other dumb people for asking if this is what all women secretly want, when you have all these actual women refusing to label their rape fantasy as rape fantasy because rape is love?

[blitzwing]

Then can you blame other dumb people for asking if this is what all women secretly want, when you have all these actual women refusing to label their rape fantasy as rape fantasy because rape is love?

Yes, I can blame them? Some people want their face shit on. Other people obviously don't. A few people's inability to accurately label their fantasies doesn't mean everyone does that.

Making generalizations "Oh some people are like this, so everyone is like this" is generally a pretty ignorant and worthless action.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

A large part of the problem, at least in the circles I travel in, is that 50 Shades isn't marketed as romance*. If it was shelved in with the rest of the dubious-to-ludicrously written erotica, it would catch a lot less flack. (It also probably wouldn't have ever become as popular as it has, because a lot of the women who are absolutely in love with the series are the same women who would never "lower themselves**" to reading erotica.)

However, it's shelved as non-genre fiction, not as romance, which lends it an air of legitimacy in the eyes of both the media and of a lot of readers that it really doesn't deserve. That's where a lot of the "oh, but it's just a love story" nonsense comes from - people take non-genre fiction seriously, where romance fiction is admittedly just fantasy wish-fulfillment that scratches an itch.

* I know the movie is marketed as romance to cash in on the Valentine market, but the books aren't.
** An actual quote from an acquaintance of mine.

[(Anonymous)]

Not just that, but E.L. James swears up and down that it's not erotica.

[(Anonymous)]

If you can't tell the difference between abuse being shown as 'sexy' and what might be an abuse survivor working out their issues through fic, or fuck even rape and abuse fic that SHOWS IT TO BE RAPE AND ABUSE then you need to sit down and shut up more than normal.

You have to be a troll because everything that comes out of your mouth is the most wank bait tripe.

[blitzwing]

If you can't tell the difference between abuse being shown as 'sexy' and what might be an abuse survivor working out their issues through fic, or fuck even rape and abuse fic that SHOWS IT TO BE RAPE AND ABUSE then you need to sit down and shut up more than normal.

And that, mon frere, is what we call a non sequiter. Where is this group of therapy!writers who I am confusing with my own friends who are writing rape-fic "because hot"? Cause I don't see them? Lil help?

You have to be a troll because everything that comes out of your mouth is the most wank bait tripe.

What have I said to so offend you, dear nonny? Was it my clever and insightful tl;dr's about literature? My staunch insistence that Blitzwing is the best Decepticon? My possibly naive and yet optimistic opinion that Jurassic Park is a good novel in spite of it's inaccuracies?

What, of my relatively tame statements over the past 2 years has so inflamed the embers of your dislike?

OP here!

[(Anonymous)]

I only came across it after I made and posted the secret but http://www.ohjoysextoy.com/50shadesofgrey/ Erika Moen's comic on it has similar sentiments and it's just sort of 'ohthankchrist FINALLY something that isn't all if-you-enjoyed-50-shades YOU ARE SUPPORTING ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIPS you terrible person, you'.

I mean obviously I don't think it's amazing! I also agree with a lot of people that parts of it are insanely problematic and it would be super bad if people did that in real life. Of course part of the point in the secret was that those bits aren't portrayed as good in 50 Shades either- Anna, bless her, is kind of dumb at the start, but she wises up on it later on and their relationship at the end doesn't resemble the one at the beginning much at all, besides the kink.

Obviously I wouldn't highly recommend it either, but it's just very annoying (personally! to me) that I see so many people going 'oh no, women liking a thing with sex in it, their poor minds are so easily influenced they're all supporting rape now oh no we must protect them because they can't know better themselves'. To borrow Moen's analogy, that's like saying if you see a woman indulging in some really unhealthy food that you assume she must not know a thing about proper nutrition. Maybe she does know, but she just wants a hamburger once in a while and would like to eat it without having to justify her choices to everyone else around her.

Re: OP here!

[(Anonymous)]

It's Ana.

Re: OP here!

[(Anonymous)]

It absolutely is and that is totally my mistake, woops. I keep forgetting, honestly. I'm really bad at remembering alternate spellings for names, thanks for reminding me!

Re: OP here!

[(Anonymous)]

'oh no, women liking a thing with sex in it, their poor minds are so easily influenced they're all supporting rape now oh no we must protect them because they can't know better themselves'.

Christ, I am so sick of coming across this strawman.

Look, I'm in an ongoing discussion with someone on another site right now who believes there is no rape and no abuse in this story. She thinks Ana is completely okay with everything that happens and fully consents all the way through. So, yes, there are some women who are reading this and thinking it's normal and healthy and there's nothing problematic about it all, and that's a fucking problem. It's not a problem because they're women. It's not a problem because they find it hot. It's a problem because we live in a society that says "that thing that looks like abuse isn't really abuse and that thing that looks like rape isn't really rape," and there are a lot of people who believe that and live that, and given that that's their reality, it doesn't actually make sense to say "oh, well, fiction and reality are totally separate." It's also a problem because the author of the books doesn't think she wrote rape and doesn't even think she wrote erotica.

People who read it, acknowledge that it would be really unhealthy in real life, but still enjoy it and find it hot? Great! I don't have any concerns about that. But you better believe I have concerns about the author's perspective, the way the book is marketed, and the fact that there are people who are taking the content in the completely wrong way. And I don't see why some people want so badly to shut those concerns down and treat them like they aren't legitimate.

Re: OP here!

[diet_poison]

^^^^^^

it's not a bad thing to say hey, some people will read this and get bad ideas from it. some men have too. it's a human thing and a culture thing and I really don't get why people are making this (this being, pointing out that this series has issues) out to be some kind of women-hating unfeminist thing

Re: OP here!

[(Anonymous)]

i liked your secret OP, and I agree with it. I feel like a lot of people think women are stupid and soft and maleable and can't tell teh difference between fiction and reality, which is upsetting.
i like messed up horror, but i don't want it to happen irl. the consent in this scenerio is with the reader and the book. not the fictional characters within.

Re: OP here!

[(Anonymous)]

i like messed up horror, but i don't want it to happen irl. the consent in this scenerio is with the reader and the book. not the fictional characters within.

Yes yes yes. This is so much more succinct and what I wanted to put across. I totally understand that it has problematic elements, but it's just so weird, you know? You come across people in fandom being all 'it's okay, YKINMK' and supporting people liking or being into different things and writing incestuous child porn one minute and the next 'oh anyone who reads 50 Shades is a terrible person and absolutely must believe and support its views'. Like, excuse me? No? It doesn't work that way?

I agree that there are some really problematic elements in the marketing of the book and how it's portrayed sometimes, but I think that making general sweeping statements about everyone who enjoys it and just assuming they automatically CAN'T know what they are talking about is really silly. Do some stupid or less well-read people enjoy it? Sure, I don't doubt that. Does that mean everyone who enjoys it HAS to be stupid or less well-read? That's what a lot of people think, and starting a discussion about a piece of work with 'well first I'm going to presume that you're dumb' is basically a horrible way to get anyone on your side, ever.

Re: OP here!

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, come on, the comparison doesn't work. Fifty Shades being marketed as a romance novel is the same as marketing The Hunger Games as an education manual.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't mind if people write it as fiction.

The problem with 50SOG is that the author has literally marketed it as a goddamn MANUAL for BDSM and as SUPER ACCURATE.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, I guess the question is, are the people writing rape fic aware that they're writing rape fic? Because E.L. James doesn't seem to be aware that she wrote a rape fantasy, and a lot of the fans of the books don't seem to be aware that it's a rape fantasy, either.

It's really, really easy to say "fiction and reality are completely 100% separate" when you haven't come across people who either can't seem to tell the difference between the two or literally don't know what they just read.

[diet_poison]

eh but many if not most of the people who write rapey fanfic at least realize it is rape

[(Anonymous)]

Rape-gorn... can't stop seeing this ;)

[ginainthekingsroad]

Still a better love story than Twilight 50SoG!