[ SECRET POST #3003 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3003 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 043 secrets from Secret Submission Post #429.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Safe spaces

[dancing_clown]

So, I was recently directed to this New York Times column: In College and Hiding From Scary Ideas, and, liberal use of "scare quotes" aside, I kind of love it. Other thoughts?

A sample in the reply.

Re: Safe spaces

[dancing_clown]

A sample:
Some people trace safe spaces back to the feminist consciousness-raising groups of the 1960s and 1970s, others to the gay and lesbian movement of the early 1990s. In most cases, safe spaces are innocuous gatherings of like-minded people who agree to refrain from ridicule, criticism or what they term microaggressions — subtle displays of racial or sexual bias — so that everyone can relax enough to explore the nuances of, say, a fluid gender identity. As long as all parties consent to such restrictions, these little islands of self-restraint seem like a perfectly fine idea.

...

Last fall, the president of Smith College, Kathleen McCartney, apologized for causing students and faculty to be “hurt” when she failed to object to a racial epithet uttered by a fellow panel member at an alumnae event in New York. The offender was the free-speech advocate Wendy Kaminer, who had been arguing against the use of the euphemism “the n-word” when teaching American history or “The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.” In the uproar that followed, the Student Government Association wrote a letter declaring that “if Smith is unsafe for one student, it is unsafe for all students.”

“It’s amazing to me that they can’t distinguish between racist speech and speech about racist speech, between racism and discussions of racism,” Ms. Kaminer said in an email.

The confusion is telling, though. It shows that while keeping college-level discussions “safe” may feel good to the hypersensitive, it’s bad for them and for everyone else."

Also mentioned is the infantilizing nature of a student-made "safe-space" at Brown University, complete with cookies, crayons and coloring books, and frolicking puppy videos so that anyone who might be traumatized from attending an optional debate on sexual assault and rape culture could escape from the world.

Re: Safe spaces

[(Anonymous)]

I haven't read it but as it's a NYT trend piece I'm confident it's mostly pointless bullshit with nearly no relation to reality

Re: Safe spaces

[(Anonymous)]

"The room was equipped with cookies, coloring books, bubbles, Play-Doh, calming music, pillows, blankets and a video of frolicking puppies, as well as students and staff members trained to deal with trauma."

Wow. When my nephew was in school, their class had a similar space. Of course, he was 4 and in kindergarten.

"At one point she went to the lecture hall — it was packed — but after a while, she had to return to the safe space. “I was feeling bombarded by a lot of viewpoints that really go against my dearly and closely held beliefs,” Ms. Hall said."

OH GOD! PEOPLE THINK DIFFERENTLY FROM ME! I AM UNSAFFFFFEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!

Re: Safe spaces

[feotakahari]

The NYT has a history of completely misunderstanding the concept of not wanting to be reminded of being raped. I'd put them one step above Know Your Meme in terms of their attitude towards rape survivors.

Re: Safe spaces

[(Anonymous)]

What did know your meme do?

Re: Safe spaces

[praetorian_guard]

Ah, Hampshire. The baby brother of the Five Colleges is something else.

Regarding the article's content:
I understand the need students feel for safe spaces. Offering them is not something I object to, and no one ought to go to an event they feel would be harmful to them. I find many people who argue for them are people who have been harmed previously. But they should be used sparingly. Oftentimes a frank debate would accomplish much more. Yes, the 'real world' doesn't always announce when it decides to be objectionable.

On the other hand, college kids (of which I am). Let us take it up with our administrations. Part of me doesn't feel it's the business of outside influences to tell colleges what they should and shouldn't do. Most people know they will not be catered to, so college offers them a chance to have a community built around their needs. If that involves cute puppy videos, well. Let 'em have four years of fun, right?

Re: Safe spaces

[dancing_clown]

I think the point is, what happens when those four years are over and young adults who have spent their college years hiding from scary thoughts and opinions are thrust out into a world that DOESN'T have a special room with puppy videos and cookies?

College is supposed to prepare you for the world and teach people to respond intelligently to things they find objectionable. Allowing them instead to hide from thought helps no one.

Re: Safe spaces

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Much ado about very little.

Re: Safe spaces

[(Anonymous)]

That's what I'm getting too.

Re: Safe spaces

[(Anonymous)]

Are "safe spaces" in college really that big of a deal? I doubt they're taking over the post-secondary school environment.

Re: Safe spaces

[(Anonymous)]

Great piece to scandalize conservatives.

Re: Safe spaces

[(Anonymous)]

I've seen a few articles talking about colleges having trouble with, for example, crime unit classes. The teachers are constantly running into students demanding irl trigger warnings for things like rape or abuse, or being upset when the class covers those topics because they can't handle it. This is touched on in your link, with the problem of schools having to accommodate students' vulnerabilities while still maintaining academic credibility.

On the one hand, it seems so extreme as to be a joke, and I can't help but wonder if the reports are exaggerated. On the other hand, my ex actually did throw a fit and change her major because a class (idr exactly what, but she was aiming for a CPS-type job) was covering abuse and sexual abuse and she apparently wasn't expecting a class about helping abused children to cover those topics.

Re: Safe spaces

[(Anonymous)]

The teachers are constantly running into students demanding irl trigger warnings for things like rape or abuse

Well, in the context of crime unit classes that is silly. I can't see how anyone would be surprised that those were topics covered. But in classes I've taken, like political science classes that examine sexual violence during war, the professors always gave a warning about the material covered in class before the day, so anyone uncomfortable with it didn't have to show up. I mean, it just seems a respectful thing to do? No one's saying you can't teach it, but a warning is ok too.

Re: Safe spaces

[herpymcderp]

Why is scare quotes in scare quotes? That implies that the scare quotes themselves weren't actually scare quotes because they were in scare quotes and aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Re: Safe spaces

[dancing_clown]

You know, I debated whether to do that. I don't really like scare quotes as a term* -- mostly because they're quote marks and have no ability to be scary or anything else -- but I know it's a term people use all the time for concepts similar to what was in the article. So yeah, IDK. It's been a long day.

*It's not even that I don't like the term and don't accept the concept its based on, I'm just tired of people tossing out "nice use of scare quotes!" every time somebody quotes something they don't like. But I'm afraid I'm digging myself into a hole of non-sensemaking.

Re: Safe spaces

[(Anonymous)]

Lolllll I had this problem too.

Re: Safe spaces

[(Anonymous)]

Hee!

Re: Safe spaces

[(Anonymous)]

I think the problem with this piece is the failure to apply critical thought about the criticism of safe spaces, if that makes sense. It's like discussing safe spaces and trigger warnings have to take one side or another without recognizing the strengths and limitations of either approach? Trigger warnings have of course lost a bit of their power with cultural saturation, but it also seems ENTIRELY reasonable for a professor to at least make the effort to make students aware of the content they will be engaging with well in advance and make preparations for obviously triggering material (ie, knowing how to recognize and help a student who is legitimately suffering). That is absolutely in keeping with the ethics of the profession; you shouldn't be actively hurting students or fostering an environment that does so, and hurting students detracts from their learning experience.

On the other hand, I totally recognize professors' fear of limiting discussion and challenging ideas. I don't agree with neutering discussion, either. I just don't find the idea of a challenging discussion incongruous with doing my best to protect students from harm? If we have to talk about, for example, an article about sexual assault survivors, I see no problem with making it very clear well in advance that this is what the article is about and that it may be a difficult read, nor do I see a problem with offering an alternate assignment for students who really can't power through. I also see no problem with laying ground rules for polite discourse of that article; questions are okay, attack the argument not the person, bear in mind the sensitivity of the topic and think about how you word things, etc. You can't prevent every single triggering scenario (my trigger is very peculiar to me, so I'm empathetic to this argument), but you can make the effort to create an environment that fosters both critical thought and enough sensitivity toward classmates that the most common triggers can be navigated. The idea that all spaces must and can be safe is absurd, sure, but so is the idea that student safety and trigger warnings are *necessarily* an attack on critical thought and academic freedom.

Re: Safe spaces

[(Anonymous)]

SA

I should also note that I'm still currently a grad student, and at least in my discipline, our code of ethics makes very clear that we have specific duties to underrepresented and marginalized groups (at the very least, trying not to perpetuate problems), from which many people extrapolate not just marginalized identities (race, class, gender, etc.) but also experiences (sexual assault, IPV, various other traumas). We also talk about ethics in teaching a lot, since we produce a lot of educators, which I know not every discipline does, so I understand that not every educator comes from this background and may find the challenges more difficult to navigate or may be more surprised when issues do arise. I just think the knee-jerk defense of protecting academic freedom and the characterization of students in need of support as sheltered babies need to be scrutinized, not least because it seems to be an ironic lack of critical and creative thinking in defense of the ideal of critical and creative thinking. SORRY I HAVE A LOT OF FEELINGS ABOUT THIS.

Re: Safe spaces

[(Anonymous)]

I heard about a convention which is going to have POC rooms.

Kinda feeling a little iffy about that. I suppose POC need a space to feel space from white folks, but the whole thing seems vaguely regregationy

Re: Safe spaces

[anonymous4]

The thought that anyone might think they need a space where they'd be safe from me leaves me speechless.

Re: Safe spaces

[(Anonymous)]

Which convention?

Re: Safe spaces

[feotakahari]

I'm not even gonna defend that. There is nothing I can possibly say to make that not comically awful.

Re: Safe spaces

[(Anonymous)]

I'm a PoC and that idea rubs me the wrong way a bit. Then again, I don't live in the US.

I'd like to think if I were white I'd like to learn about fandom PoC issues. But my presence probably would affect the discussion in those rooms, and would take away from the experience of the people it was supposed to benefit. So I guess I'd turn to online stuff instead, or non- specifically-PoC functions.

So after thinking that through, I'm fine with the idea as long as the rooms are specifically targeted for PoC issue discussion, and similar non-segregated (man, what a word) ones are available. Like women's issues forums: some are women-only, some invite everyone. But even so, the inevitable reverse racism screaming crowd would make me sad.