fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3075 ]

[ SECRET POST #3075 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3075 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Spy]

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[Eurovision]

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[Captain America]

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14. [SPOILERS for Steven Universe]

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15. [SPOILERS for Age of Ultron]

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16. [SPOILERS for Harry Potter, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and DragonFable]

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17. [WARNING for sexual abuse]

(Duggar Family, 19 kids & Counting)

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18. [WARNING for incest]

[A Redtail's Dream]

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19. [WARNING for rape]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #439.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Yes, wow, a bombing by a single psycho nearly ten years old, burn all the fundies because clearly they're dangerous.

Meanwhile ISIS tosses gay men off buildings and beheads women and children daily. Call them on that, and you're a culturally insensitive Islamophobic asshole.

You can call them out you just can't refer to them as Muslims because that's problematic.

Why? Going by that logic one could say calling the Duggars christians is problematic.

I really hope this is sarcasm.

Nobody actually argues that criticizing ISIS is Islamophobic.

People will criticize you if you say that ISIS is bad specifically because they're Muslim (and I would also criticize anyone who said that the Duggars' Christianity is the cause of their evil). But I would agree that a particular form of institutionalized extremist fundamentalist Islam is part of the structure of ISIS, in a broadly analogous way to the way in which the Duggars' particular form of institutionalized extremist fundamentalist Christianity informs, justifies, and shields their behavior. And I would agree (I don't know why anyone wouldn't) that ISIS is overall much more harmful than the Duggars.

But the reason that people talk differently about the two is because they're talking, not in absolute terms, but about our society. And in our society, Muslims are a lot more likely to be unjustly persecuted, and evangelical Christians a lot more likely to be defended and justified and seen as a normal part of society and generally apologized for. And so people are on guard against promoting that persecution, whereas they want to stop the justification of the kinds of evil that the specific branch of Christianity they're talking about. Put in a sentence - Muslims in the West are persecuted more than Christians are.

And I don't think that's a particularly objectionable chain of thought, to be honest.

...what.

I'm a fairly fundamentalist Christian, and nothing in my religion condones rape, incest, or molestation. At least, not last time I checked. Maybe I should read the Book again.

I'm sorry if I was unclear. That kind of argument is precisely the kind that I would reject, in either the Duggars' case or the ISIS case. I don't think that Christianity, in an absolute sense, justifies anything of the sort.

But I do think that Christianity as practiced by the Duggars is used towards that purpose - if not to positively justify those things, at least to minimize their impact and shield from justice those who commit them. And you can see that by looking at what the Duggars say - the way in which their Christian beliefs inform their behavior in terms of avoiding the attention of law enforcement for fear of getting CPS involved, and the way that their perspective on sexuality informs the way they talk about victims and perpetrators and how wrong something like molestation is.

In a similar way, I don't think anything about Catholicism justifies sexual abuse - but I do think the culture and beliefs of Catholicism were (unfortunately) put to use to shield from justice those who were guilty of abuse. That's what I'm trying to say.

Have you read your "Good Book" all the way through? Because I seem to remember some parts that said rapists could be forgiven if they married their victims, slavery, mass genocides, and general assholery liberally sprinkled in with the good parts. I went to Catholic school. We had to read the whole damn boring thing.

Not to mention how much awfulness has been carried out in the name of Christianity over the years. Witch burnings, the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, anti-communism, Satanic hysteria, "conversion therapy", FGM, the Westboro Baptist Church...I could keep going. There's a saying about those in glass houses, you know.

You wouldn't count yourself amongst the Christians who committed those hateful acts, and continue to do so, I would hope, just like a majority of Christians these days, and you would like people to not lump you in with that violent vocal minority. Just like the majority of people who practice Islam would like you to not associate them with their violent vocal minority. ISIS is not practicing Islam. They are using Islam as an excuse to make a power-grab, and they're not actually called ISIS by the locals, because they consider associating them with Islam more respect than the group deserves.

DA

I'm not exactly a huge fan of the Bible or anything like that, but iirc Jesus's death was supposed to free people from Old Testament laws. I think that's how my evangelical friend explained it, anyway.

I mentioned this before somewhere in this thread, but I really hate how people bring up atrocities committed by Christians hundreds of years ago as reasons why Christian's shouldn't criticize Islamic extremism, like every modern Christian is responsible for things that happened in the middle ages. Society has evolved, and barbaric acts like those that happened are rightfully condemned. There is no reason why we shouldn't condemn barbaric acts that occur today because adherents of another religion practice them. Also, including anti-communism in your list is a huge stretch, imo. Also, the WBC, while scummy and malicious, don't do anything but picket and generally act like bigoted dumbfucks. They haven't actually killed anyone, and to put them on the same level of the Crusades and ISIS is just...yeah.

I agree that lumping the extremists together with the normal folk is stupid, regardless of religion. I do take issue with your claim that those in ISIS are "not practicing Islam." It's the No True Scotsman argument; they certainly wield their faith as a weapon, but how can you say that their faith isn't real? For the record, I say the same thing to my Christian friends who claim that the WBC and other weird fringe groups aren't "true Christians." Who's to decide who's a "true" whatever? I agree that extremist Muslims/Christians practice a twisted, bastardized version of the faith that goes against the supposed values, but I wouldn't say they flat-out don't practice it, especially if it's what they believe in.

you have got ot be trolling

Did you know that there are Christians who practice differently from you?

OMG THAT NEVER CROSSED MY MIND.

Are you serious with that. Shock and surprise, I have one kid. The idea of having more fills me with screaming horrors. The idea of having as many as the Duggars is an entire country's worth of Do Not Want.

And covering up a molestation instead of getting immediate professional help for every kid involved means, to me, that the Duggars are Doing It Wrong. Just like those Westboro assholes, I want to grab them and shake them and say "Get off my side, you're making my side look fucking stupid."

According to the Bible, rape is okay so long as the rapist marries his victim. The issue of incest is a little fuzzier, but there's no doubt it happened on quite a few occasions: Lot and his daughters, Abraham and Sarah, etc.

Meh. Old Testament.

I don't think you get to just say "it happened in a part of the book I don't like, so it doesn't count" when you're referring to the holy text of the religion...

ikr? what happened to everything being "god's word"? you'd think god would be a better editor if the entire first half of his book is apparently a goddamn rough draft according to these people.

Yes, Old Testament. The same Testament Evangelicals use to claim that homosexuality is a sin. You can't just pick and choose which sections count and which ones don't.

Yes and? They're wrong too. Christians who use the Old Testament to justify their current methods of practice are all doing it wrong. The New Testament is an update of "God's word" (an "edit", if you're the anon above who cleverly quipped that God needed a better editor) and is kept around for context of what the New Testament has changed.

*The Old Testament is kept around for context

Jesus never says that the old laws have changed and that you can stop following Old Testament rules. Paul may have, but Jesus certainly never did.

Plus, people who say "the Old Testament doesn't count" still pull out Old Testament quotes all the time. Like the Ten Commandments. If the Old Testament doesn't count, does it mean that we're allowed to murder and bear false witness, now?

Re: DA

mimi-sardinia.livejournal.com - 2015-06-07 08:11 (UTC) - Expand

Yeah, actually, incest with close relatives is specifically prohibited in Leviticus. I think first cousin is the closest that's OK.

I think violent sexual assault gets the death penalty in Exodus? Or is that only against married women?

Seducing a virgin required paying a bride price, sleeping with a married woman was a great way to get dead.

Whatever, the writers of Torah had very, very different social mores, but thanks for trying to make modern Jews and Christians look stupid.

According to what I've heard, the way it was practiced was that the rapist marries his victim and is required to provide for her (and any offspring) but she doesn't necessarily have to move in with him and if she does the family and friends keep a very close eye on the couple to make sure he doesn't hurt her (abuse or neglect are both grounds for divorce).
It's in the law to make sure that the victim and any potential rape child are provided for, for life and that responsability falls on the rapist not the victims family.
People often forget that these were small communuties who valued family greatly, they weren't just going to hand their daughter over to a rapist and forget about it. On one hand it means the rapist doesn't get lynched and has a finiancial responsability for life, on the other the victim gets married woman status and safety since the judicial proceedings are public, everyone will know if he's a nasty piece of work.

Source?

the fucking Old Testament, which you clearly have no understanding of

top kek

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[ SECRET POST #3075 ]

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"a little fuzzier."

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