fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3075 ]

[ SECRET POST #3075 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3075 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Spy]

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[Eurovision]

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[Captain America]

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14. [SPOILERS for Steven Universe]

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15. [SPOILERS for Age of Ultron]

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16. [SPOILERS for Harry Potter, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and DragonFable]

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17. [WARNING for sexual abuse]

(Duggar Family, 19 kids & Counting)

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18. [WARNING for incest]

[A Redtail's Dream]

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19. [WARNING for rape]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #439.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Reminder that a religious extremist bombed the 1996 Olympics, and it was an evangelical Christian.

What's the Christian equivalent to ISIS?

The United States of AmeriKKKa

(My edge is like the blade of a samurai sword)

There most emphatically isn't one.

Whatever the Bosnian Serbs who slaughtered all those Croats and "Turks" in Bosnia called themselves.

Or, if you like, the Croat militants in the same conflict.

Or, if you go back before the Peace of Westfalen, pretty much John Calvin's entire "Reformed Church" movement. They burned Christians of the "wrong" sect at the stake as "witches." Those guys.

Or, before that, maybe the Pope who tried to exterminate the Cathars?

Or, you know, the freaking Crusaders, from the bunch who entered Jerusalem and killed every non-Christian to the nitwits who sacked Constantinople to profit the Doge.

Or, how about the Greek Patriarch who decided he could push the Emperor around and use the power of the Roman state to rob pagans.

The Crusaders (or the early Protestants) are most like, the Serbs are most recent.

DA, but I really hate how people use examples from hundreds of years ago to go "see? Christians committed atrocities too so they are just as bad!" Society has evolved. This is 2015. The Crusades aren't something that happened 20 years ago. Regardless of what happened in the past, people today
(regardless of religion) are entitled to call out bullshit when they see it. If people are being beheaded and stoning women in the name of religion in the 21st century, there is a huge fucking problem. There is no modern Christian organization that comes even close to what ISIS is doing. At all.

So, you agree that there have been Christian equivalents to Daesh.

Re: Um, in what timeframe?

(Anonymous) - 2015-06-06 03:15 (UTC) - Expand

Well, if the existence of Daesh speaks to some kind of fundamental truth about Islam as a religion, it's absolutely valid to bring up shit from the Crusades.

If all you want to say is that Daesh is bad, then yeah, absolutely. But that's not at all the point that people arguing against when they bring up the Crusades.

Re: Um, in what timeframe?

(Anonymous) - 2015-06-06 02:54 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Um, in what timeframe?

arcadiaego - 2015-06-06 21:14 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Um, in what timeframe?

(Anonymous) - 2015-06-06 03:16 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Um, in what timeframe?

(Anonymous) - 2015-06-06 03:18 (UTC) - Expand

Like, now. If you have to go back hundreds of years to find Christians acting like Muslims are today then you're kind of proving their point.

1991 was not hundreds of years ago.

The closest thing that comes to mind is the missionaries in Uganda: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/how-uganda-was-seduced-by-antigay-conservative-evangelicals-9193593.html

Look up "militas" and the history of domestic terrorism in the U.S. You ever noticed that since 9/11, this country likes to pretend there is no such thing as terrorism committed by white Americans upon other white Americans? All of a sudden, the only terrorists are brown people, usually Muslims.

Pro-Life extremists. They've bombed clinics and even killed doctors.

How many people do they kill daily?

Yes, wow, a bombing by a single psycho nearly ten years old, burn all the fundies because clearly they're dangerous.

Meanwhile ISIS tosses gay men off buildings and beheads women and children daily. Call them on that, and you're a culturally insensitive Islamophobic asshole.

You can call them out you just can't refer to them as Muslims because that's problematic.

Why? Going by that logic one could say calling the Duggars christians is problematic.

I really hope this is sarcasm.

Nobody actually argues that criticizing ISIS is Islamophobic.

People will criticize you if you say that ISIS is bad specifically because they're Muslim (and I would also criticize anyone who said that the Duggars' Christianity is the cause of their evil). But I would agree that a particular form of institutionalized extremist fundamentalist Islam is part of the structure of ISIS, in a broadly analogous way to the way in which the Duggars' particular form of institutionalized extremist fundamentalist Christianity informs, justifies, and shields their behavior. And I would agree (I don't know why anyone wouldn't) that ISIS is overall much more harmful than the Duggars.

But the reason that people talk differently about the two is because they're talking, not in absolute terms, but about our society. And in our society, Muslims are a lot more likely to be unjustly persecuted, and evangelical Christians a lot more likely to be defended and justified and seen as a normal part of society and generally apologized for. And so people are on guard against promoting that persecution, whereas they want to stop the justification of the kinds of evil that the specific branch of Christianity they're talking about. Put in a sentence - Muslims in the West are persecuted more than Christians are.

And I don't think that's a particularly objectionable chain of thought, to be honest.

...what.

I'm a fairly fundamentalist Christian, and nothing in my religion condones rape, incest, or molestation. At least, not last time I checked. Maybe I should read the Book again.

I'm sorry if I was unclear. That kind of argument is precisely the kind that I would reject, in either the Duggars' case or the ISIS case. I don't think that Christianity, in an absolute sense, justifies anything of the sort.

But I do think that Christianity as practiced by the Duggars is used towards that purpose - if not to positively justify those things, at least to minimize their impact and shield from justice those who commit them. And you can see that by looking at what the Duggars say - the way in which their Christian beliefs inform their behavior in terms of avoiding the attention of law enforcement for fear of getting CPS involved, and the way that their perspective on sexuality informs the way they talk about victims and perpetrators and how wrong something like molestation is.

In a similar way, I don't think anything about Catholicism justifies sexual abuse - but I do think the culture and beliefs of Catholicism were (unfortunately) put to use to shield from justice those who were guilty of abuse. That's what I'm trying to say.

Have you read your "Good Book" all the way through? Because I seem to remember some parts that said rapists could be forgiven if they married their victims, slavery, mass genocides, and general assholery liberally sprinkled in with the good parts. I went to Catholic school. We had to read the whole damn boring thing.

Not to mention how much awfulness has been carried out in the name of Christianity over the years. Witch burnings, the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, anti-communism, Satanic hysteria, "conversion therapy", FGM, the Westboro Baptist Church...I could keep going. There's a saying about those in glass houses, you know.

You wouldn't count yourself amongst the Christians who committed those hateful acts, and continue to do so, I would hope, just like a majority of Christians these days, and you would like people to not lump you in with that violent vocal minority. Just like the majority of people who practice Islam would like you to not associate them with their violent vocal minority. ISIS is not practicing Islam. They are using Islam as an excuse to make a power-grab, and they're not actually called ISIS by the locals, because they consider associating them with Islam more respect than the group deserves.

Re: DA

(Anonymous) - 2015-06-06 02:01 (UTC) - Expand

you have got ot be trolling

Did you know that there are Christians who practice differently from you?

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