fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #394 ]

[ SECRET POST #394 ]

⌈ Secret Post #394 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 15 pages, 375 secrets from Secret Submission Post #057.
Secrets Not Posted: 0 broken links, [ 1 ] not!secrets, [ 1 ] not!fandom, [ 1 ] repeat, [ 1 2 ] too big, [ 1 ] personal attack, [ 1 ] we went through this yesterday.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Monday, February 4th, 2008.
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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because that is definately the fault of men. You realize that the majority of women in the US and Canada these days plan to have their own carreer seperate from their husbands? just because some stupid bitch thinks that a man should take care of her doesn't mean that it's the guy's FAULT. Women have come a long, long way.

And we still only make 70% of what a man makes!

In some situations, sure. Not all.

The point is, women are proactively seeking career-driven futures in today's world. What they make is a moot point, because obviously they're making enough to live off of.

If one teenage girl gets it into her head that she should and can depend on a man to pay her way, that's her problem.

Besides that, there are some guys who would do anything for their S.O., including pay their way in life, and if they both are comfortable in that relationship, I wouldn't judge them. Key word here: BOTH.

See: glass ceiling.

Dude.

Please. Relevant points only.

You're not making ANY.

Yes, I am.

Yes, women are definitely more college- and career-driven these days (some would argue more than men are), but it still exists within a system that values women's work (even if it's the same work as men's) less than men's. So, you get less women being promoted to higher positions within companies, either because their work is not valued as much by the (predominantly male) higher-ups, or it's expected that they won't be able to work as much once they get married and have children (see also: America's fucked-up policies regarding work, family and child care).

It all exists within a system, so it's kinda hard to pick out some bits and say that the rest doesn't matter, because IT'S ALL CONNECTED.

No, you aren't,

A salary of a woman being lower does not mean that women still WANT TO DEPEND ON MEN. I've seen women support their families while working as phone tech support.

of course, you're going by america only so your veiws and mine will be vastly different.

Of course it doesn't mean that they want to be dependent on men. But there is the EXPECTATION and social/cultural pressure/tradition that they SHOULD be, which manifests in pay descrepency.

Even individual choices exist within a system. Nothing is decided within a vaccuum.

Re: OP 16

tealizard.livejournal.com - 2008-02-04 00:25 (UTC) - Expand

Re: OP 16

jewbrat.livejournal.com - 2008-02-04 04:11 (UTC) - Expand

Re: OP 16

pinstripesuit.livejournal.com - 2008-02-04 16:02 (UTC) - Expand

Re: OP 16

germania731.livejournal.com - 2008-02-04 20:26 (UTC) - Expand

A salary of a woman being lower does not mean that women still WANT TO DEPEND ON MEN. I've seen women support their families while working as phone tech support.

So you know what women everywhere want? That's nice.

Re: OP 16

tealizard.livejournal.com - 2008-02-04 00:34 (UTC) - Expand

Re: OP 16

paperclipchains.livejournal.com - 2008-02-04 00:48 (UTC) - Expand

Re: OP 16

tealizard.livejournal.com - 2008-02-04 00:50 (UTC) - Expand

Re: OP 16

paperclipchains.livejournal.com - 2008-02-04 01:12 (UTC) - Expand

Re: OP 16

paperclipchains.livejournal.com - 2008-02-04 01:12 (UTC) - Expand

Re: OP 16

tealizard.livejournal.com - 2008-02-04 01:13 (UTC) - Expand

Re: OP 16

(Anonymous) - 2008-02-04 01:30 (UTC) - Expand

Re: OP 16

tealizard.livejournal.com - 2008-02-04 01:34 (UTC) - Expand

Re: OP 16

(Anonymous) - 2008-02-04 02:04 (UTC) - Expand

Re: OP 16

ronsard.livejournal.com - 2008-02-04 01:49 (UTC) - Expand

Re: OP 16

(Anonymous) - 2008-02-04 01:19 (UTC) - Expand

But it's still not common practice.
About a year or so ago, there was a big scandal in England - England's public office to ensure the welfare and equal rights of women - a GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENT - was paying its female employees at least 3000 pounds LESS than the men. Even though there were only about 20% male employees in the department at the time.

I acknowledge the cruel back-handed manner that some girls use to get pregnant, and the stupid reasons for doing so, whether a problem within themselves or whether society is "to blame". And though condoms aren't 100% effective all the time, guys still should wear one, especially when you're young and not yet able (mentally or otherwise) to support yourself. You can't blatantly blame the woman exclusively in every case.

okay, but that's not RELEVANT.

What is relevant is that women are no longer depending on men as they used to. Sure their pay may be less, etc, but that doesn't mean they're NOT looking to a career in their future.

Also I don't blatantly blame the woman. I just can't stand when people say that the guys are at fault, as if they are the only ones as well... it takes two people to make a baby, and yes sometimes guys insist on sex. but chicks can say no. AND VICE VERSA, since yeah, sex feinds in both genders etc etc

THANK YOU!

YW :D

DO YOU JUST NOT FUCKING GET IT?

Less pay is NOT something to be fucking content about, son of a bitch!

... I... didn't say it was. I said it was irrellevant to the situation :D HOORAY.

Re: OP 16

kinneas.livejournal.com - 2008-02-04 03:08 (UTC) - Expand

Re: OP 16

tealizard.livejournal.com - 2008-02-04 03:11 (UTC) - Expand

Because men are willing to do more dangerous, shitty jobs for more hours! Imagine that!

I believe the point is "equal work for equal pay"?

You and your common sense...

And it's not like any of those studies ever compare the salaries of women and men with the same/similar jobs and find the women's salaries to be less than the men's, of course!

Point out ONE business that employs both men and women where the woman gets paid less.

And when I say one business, I mean one company. I'm not talking about two jobs of the same function. I mean like fucking MCDONALDS or something, where any joe-shit can work.

How about my old job? Movie Gallery, specifically GameCrazy and Hollywood Video. All of the women that worked in my store were paid on average at LEAST a dollar less that the men in both sales ranks (CSR and Shift Leader), with a single exception.

When we pointed this out, it came to light that this was frequent practice in MOST of the stores around the country.

Eventually I was fired for something either I, a veteran employee, or this new guy that had been around for two months and had a long history of the same fuckup plus a worse sales record might have done, they had no definite proof.

Please, please tell me sexism in the workplace doesn't exist. I'll point you to the eventual HR ruling my favor.

Yo do realize that career statistics are based on those of an industry, not that of an individual company?

Such as this study described on Inside Higher Ed.com presented to the American Educational Research Association by Paul D. Umbach, of the University of Iowa:
http: //www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/04/13/gender

But even so, here's a link to a Washington Post article citing a study that finds women at WalMart are paid less than their male counterparts who hold the same positions: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A755-2004Jun23.html

point taken, I CONCEDE

thank you for your citations :)

Re: OP 16

manda-babylon.livejournal.com - 2008-02-04 23:03 (UTC) - Expand

When I was sixteen and started at Burger King, my future boyfriend (who started a couple of months later) started at a higher wage than I did.

Do you seriously think that men and women make their career choices in a vacuum? Do you honestly believe that the reason men tend to work more dangerous, shitty jobs is NOT because of societal pressures that tell women what they can and can't do?

Well, I suppose you're entitled to think that, but it makes you look like a dumbass.

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