[ SECRET POST #3180 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3180 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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09. [WARNING for rape]



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11. [WARNING for domestic violence/abuse]

[The Musketeers]


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13. [WARNING for rape]

[Babylon 5]









Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #454.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Mods in Dragon Age fandom

[otakugal15]

Just to clarify: I have never played these games.

So, I just got into one hell of a fight with someone over some controversial mods that they wanna call #modgate2k15. Lost some followers as well who I thought were pretty reasonable tbh.

To me? I don't see a problem with them. My argument is why is it a bad thing to give everyone options? Mods to make straight characters gay or bi, mods to make gay characters straight or bi, mods to make the characters different skin colors and the like.

But their argument is that it erases them.

....how? From what I can tell, the DA series is a console game that individual people play.

Now, I do know some people will download certain mods who DO wanna make that game completely straight friendly or gay friendly or whatever. However, I also know that not everyone who downloads the mods does it for bigoted reasons. Others do it for the variety.

Me? Were I playing those games? I'd download all the bi mods just so I can romance whoever my little heart feels like (yes that even means Dorian with a fem!Inq and Sera with a male!Inq).

But I fail to see how this erases them. These mods don't affect anyone else's game but the person who uses them. So people who like the game as is are fine. And everyone knows the mods don't change canon. So those few people who try and say it does will always be shot down, but the community and the creators alike. Not to mention, people who use mods are probably actually a small portion of the player base, especially since these only affect the PC versions (if there are ones that can affect the console version, well, i honestly have no idea as i thought things like that couldn't happen? Oo??)

I just don't get it. I mean, I was surprised and happy when bioware introduced two gay characters. I was applauding them liek whoa. But, I also don't think it's a bad thing to allow people to mod the game at a later date to fit what they wanna do. Since that only affects them.

Thoughts?

Re: Mods in Dragon Age fandom

[dethtoll]

I don't think those mods really affect anyone else, but it does reflect kinda poorly on the mod authors and the people who use them IMO.

It's like the time I found a mod for Skyrim called Darker Argonian Nipples. Here's the thing -- Argonians don't have nipples. To use the mod it goes with another mod that gives them nipples. And THAT mod is meant for an overall nude mod, which I always thought were tacky at best. So not only did someone think the fucking lizard people needed nipples, but someone else thought they weren't dark enough. And people download this shit.

I mean, sure you can make and download mods like that, but what's that say about you? It's the same thing with mods that outright alter an established, written character's sexuality. You want that, isn't DA one of the more fic-heavy game fandoms out there?

Re: Mods in Dragon Age fandom

[(Anonymous)]

This conversation is now about the ideal color for lizard nipples.

I say viridian.

Re: Mods in Dragon Age fandom

[(Anonymous)]

Why not a nice forest green?

Re: Mods in Dragon Age fandom

[darkmanifest]

You want that, isn't DA one of the more fic-heavy game fandoms out there?

What's the difference between using fic to change a character instead of mods, though? Both are personal fan-made creations that do nothing to alter the original media and reflect on the taste of the people who create and enjoy them. I don't care about either, personally, but I can't make heads or tails of differentiating them.

Re: Mods in Dragon Age fandom

[dethtoll]

How do you define "alter the original media," though? Because isn't that exactly what mods do?

Re: Mods in Dragon Age fandom

[darkmanifest]

I really wouldn't say so, mods don't change the original game that people buy, they don't endanger profits or visibility for that game with their existence. Same as fanfic doesn't reach through the ether to change the substance of the original book, even though fic adopts copyrighted characters from that book for the writer/reader's personal amusement.

Re: Mods in Dragon Age fandom

[(Anonymous)]

*whistles tunelessly*

*backs slowly to the wall*

*sidles nonchalantly over to the door*

*backs out whistling tunelessly until around a corner*

*runs away screaming*

Re: Mods in Dragon Age fandom

[(Anonymous)]

Obviously it can't actually erase the characters' sexualities, but for queer fans it brings up nasty associations with real world violence that we still face, real world violence that the game itself actually references. I really don't understand how you can look at a gay character, whose storyline heavily involves him fleeing his country because his father tried to brainwash him into being attracted to women, and decide that you want to mod him so that he'll get with your female inquisitor.

Re: Mods in Dragon Age fandom

[(Anonymous)]

i think it's more that some people simply don't want to play the entire game all over again as a gender they don't like playing as just for a romance, so the mod's an easy way to romance their favourite character anyway. i really don't think most of them think much farther than that!

Re: Mods in Dragon Age fandom

[(Anonymous)]

Then maybe they should listen when people explain why they're upset by the mods, instead of trying to reframe it as an issue of queer people being mean and unreasonable.

But I also find it hard to imagine that someone could consider Dorian their favorite character while failing to pick up on the potential implications of modding him into liking their female inquisitor, when he explains in-game that his father tried to mage away the gay.

Re: Mods in Dragon Age fandom

[(Anonymous)]

See, this is what I think.

Take SWTOR as an example. I like the smuggler story and if I decide to make a male!Smugg to romance Risha, and really like that romance, if I could and not get in throuble for it? I'd totally make a mod so my fem!Smugg could romance her. And if our companions were able to he exclusively gay, I'd probably do the same thing to see what it'd be like with a het pair for them.

It has nothing to do with erasure. It's just me wanting to experiment and see how they play out. More times than not, in the end, the natural romance (i.e. what was programed from the get go) feels the best (though in the case of Corso, no romance is worth it with him imo), but I see nothing wrong with different headcanons and the like for a new playthrough.

I imagine Dragon Age would be the same, in the end.

The ONLY people I would side eye, but still defend in playing their game, are the ones who buy the game and immediately look for those mods without giving the in game romances a try first.

-otakugal15

(one of these days i will finally change my password so i can log back in from my phone)

Re: Mods in Dragon Age fandom

[(Anonymous)]

My thoughts: I too haven't played Dragon Age, so while I may have hypothetical opinions on these issues I avoid getting involved in the in-fandom arguments about it cause I feel like that is tacky as hell.

Re: Mods in Dragon Age fandom

[(Anonymous)]

imo as a queer person:

I really don't give a fuck if other people mod their game to make Dorian straight, or Sera bi, or to make every character walk around nude at all times, or just to turn DA (or Skyrim, or any other game) into some kind of giant cat-people inflation-porn fuckfest where at the press of a key they can command any character to fuck any other character in a giant orgy of fail. Everyone is entitled to mod their game however they see fit, and I don't find anything morally wrong with using ANY mods even if I personally think that mod is skeevy or conflicts with lore or whatever.

However, I also accept that if you make a mod where a character like Dorian (who's entire personal storyline is driven by the fact that he refused to fuck a woman BECAUSE HE IS GAY) is suddenly romanceable by your female 'Quiz? You'd best be prepared for the reactions from the community at large.

You can't release a mod to the public, especially something that anyone with half a fucking brain should know will offend people, and then cry persecution when people rightly criticize your work. Especially for a game like Dragon Age which attracts SJWs like flies on shit.

Re: Mods in Dragon Age fandom

[caerbannog]

IDK, no-one has tried to ride my ass yet over using the bi cassandra mod but I'm also not very involved or 'big' in the DA fandom so I imagine most people do not care.

I like Sera but I don't want to romance her and the noblelady is too flat and come on cassandra is awesome, who doesn't want to romance that?!

Re: Mods in Dragon Age fandom

[otakugal15]

The creator of that mod, for whatever reason, was targeted liek whoa and just completely run out of fandom.

But here's the thing, was Cassandra straight? If she was, then that's the difference here. Dorian and Sera ARE gay and the bi and straight mods are seem as synonymous with conversion therapy.

Which, over all, yeah changing a characters sexuality is a shitty thing to do...if this weren't a game that is entirely based on YOUR character choices and, as far as the PC version is concerned, able to be modded. And since this is a game that isn't an MMO or able to played with multiple people (as far i know)...it doesn't affect the other people? They aren't using teh mod, so...those characters aren't changed? Not to mention the core canon is the same and will not be changed.

I dunno. It's turned into a giant crusade and clusterfuck and I just...ugh. This one particular user is really hardheaded and now she wants to plaster me all over the net as some evil scum of some sort.

Oh well.

Re: Mods in Dragon Age fandom

[caerbannog]

Yeah I think Cassandra is straight (or secretly racist against quanari idk I've not gotten far yet) but I was really sad when I google "bi cassandra mod" because I had the grand idea of modding my game and it was just historical wank galore :(
I feel so bad for that person, no-one did that to the bi-alistair mod that I recall in DA???

Granted yeah the other way around has major awkward implications, like sure if you wanna mod your game like that go ahead but probably don't want to talk too much about it in fandom circles because eep. Especially sicne as far as I am aware cassandra's sexuality is NOT a major part of her story/personality but Dorian and Sera are? (pls note, have only met dorian once so far so going off what i've read)

((I am a very slow player))

:( Disengage and ignore? Then hopefully they'll come off as some sort of obsessed nutso

Re: Mods in Dragon Age fandom

[(Anonymous)]

Normally I'm all for "everyone is bi"-mods but they have to make sense for the characters. Like with DG, no matter what choices I make they don't change the past of the other characters. And big part of Dorian's personal storyline is how his father tried to make him straight because he wouldn't - couldn't - pretend he was attracted to women. To the point that he had to leave his country to get away. That's not something you casually get over just because you fall in love.

Even if the fandom wasn't so SJW I still think there'd be backlash. It's at the very least incredibly tone deaf to not consider how changing a character's sexuality that had such an impact on his background affects everything else, especially when said impact wouldn't have been as bad if he was bi. So unless the modder either rewrote his background or added additional lines/story dealing with the consequences of realizing he's not completely gay/has an exception... It's still wrong that the modder got death threats, but I'm not surprised at the backlash.

Re: Mods in Dragon Age fandom

[(Anonymous)]

I'm queer and they don't bother me at all. It's not like they change the actual game canon - mods are mods, the entire point is to mess around with the game in a way that isn't possible without modifying the game's coding. I don't care about nude mods or boob increase mods or giant dong mods either. What someone wants to do with their own personal game is their business, and I understand that a large part of the appeal of the "create your own protagonist" type of games is the ability to make a character that appeals to you. I can see how someone wouldn't want to have to change their character's gender just to be able to romance a particular NPC when - let's be honest here - these games are based largely on a certain degree of wish fulfillment (designing your own character, choosing their personality, romancing NPCs). When they're already meant to be the equivalent of a self-insert fanfiction, why get mad at people who treat them that way?

Re: Mods in Dragon Age fandom

[(Anonymous)]

I'm queer and I have a problem both with the bi!Dorian/Sera mods and with fanfiction (self-insert or otherwise) where people pair a female character with Dorian or a male character with Sera. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Mods in Dragon Age fandom

[(Anonymous)]

same

Re: Mods in Dragon Age fandom

[(Anonymous)]

Yay? You have fun with your fanfic and everyone else will have fun with theirs.

Re: Mods in Dragon Age fandom

[(Anonymous)]

Turning the conversation briefly from the sexuality mods (my feelings are very firm on that matter, and I don't think anyone needs me being strident at them about video games); race mods! Or, at least, skin colour mods.
I've actually only seen two of these, not being much into the DA modding community - one to match Kieran's skin colour to that of the user's Warden (if the Warden was Kieran's dad, of course), which makes a certain amount of sense, but ultimately I couldn't care less about; aaaaand one to make Vivienne white. Which I find a little skeevy, by itself - I've never much liked mods that changed the appearance of NPCs, but making a black woman white seems rather *off* - but if I recall correctly, it was titled 'more attractive Vivienne' or similar, which...
Do I really need to say why that's gross?

Re: Mods in Dragon Age fandom

[(Anonymous)]

I have no issues with skin color mods either as I see them as AU versions anyway (hell, the bioware people who work on SWTOR gives all players the ability to put custom in game mods on their companion sheets, so...), but as to that title? Yeah, that one screams of a modder who is racist.

But I am of the opinion that those who download mods aren't always gonna be the same.

Hell, I'd be the person who'd download that mod, modify it just a little, and repost with a different title. Cause there's no reason for a title like that. And if it's the character I'm thinking of (is she that dragon lady?), she's stunning as is. A white version (or brown version or some variation in between them all) would literally be titled "alt vivs". Cause...that's what it'd be. Oo??

Re: Mods in Dragon Age fandom

[darkmanifest]

Lightening mods are rather prevalent with two characters from DA:O and DA2, Isabela and Zevran. I'm not a fan of them, and I probably wouldn't want to be best buddies with someone who's into them, but I honestly could not begin to care about them beyond that. The same free tools people use to lighten characters up are the tools I use to darken them (my Cousland families are always dark-skinned), and if the price of that is some sketchiness in a personal game I never have to see or play, well, whatever.