[ SECRET POST #3203 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3203 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 062 secrets from Secret Submission Post #458.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

01. http://i.imgur.com/VWBhnth.png

[nanslice]

I also enjoy ship teases and implied romance canonically...in other people's work. XD In my own, it's usually requited and consummated. As long as you don't act like it's a joke ("I don't know what I would do without you...no homo tho.") I think it would be okay. I mean, I'm no expert but. I think that's the problem people have with it.

[leisuretime]

I've seen people call queerbaiting just because two characters were close but not gay (god forbid they be affectionate and not gay) so I wouldn't hang my hat on that assumption.

[dahli]

Well, there's text and there's subtext. Personally I'm like you and prefer my pairings with tons of subtext instead of having them become canon (with some exceptions), because it gives me the chance to ship them with other people if I feel like, while not being tied to the idea that they are canon and must never ever ship them with other people. I guess it's more fun for me that way.

[(Anonymous)]

It's only baiting if you're also insisting they're totally straight and/or pairing them off hetero, which isn't what it sounds like you're doing to me? It's fine, don't worry.

[philstar22]

It really depends on the genre of the canon for me. I do tend to prefer subtle hints or background relationships in canon. And then I get my fill of shipping in fanon. But most of the time I'm not watching straight up romances, so I don't want romance to take over canon.

[(Anonymous)]

As long as you treat het couples the same way, it's fine.

[(Anonymous)]

This.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

There aren't any het couples. I didn't plan it that way, but all the romance is between people of the same gender.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Then it's not baiting, like, at all! don't worry about it.

[(Anonymous)]

Me too. I get way more involved in pairings where I have to look for subtext and imagine what they'd be like together. The fanfic is also just more satisfying to ruead

[(Anonymous)]

"until I realised"
how does this happen

[elaminator]

People make mistakes, that's how.

[(Anonymous)]

You just "realise" a while after the fact that all your romantic pairings have been same-gender? Don't understand.

[elaminator]

I don't think there's anything wrong with that. If you're worried about how people are going to take it you can always tag your fic pre-slash or whatever so people won't expect any sort of consummation, but true queerbaiting would be if you threw in some "totally not gay though, lolol, gonna go sleep with a member of the opposite sex now" kind of thing.

For me, it really depends. Most of the shippy fic I read does have the characters confronting their feelings and starting a relationship, but I've also read pre-relationship fic and loved it. I think either can be satisfying if well written.

Same with canon; there are instances where I don't even want my ship to be canon, I'm fine with the show teasing me and not going there (because it might change the character dynamics too much, or the show might start to focus on romance, etc). In other cases it irritates me but I survive. You are allowed preferences.

[(Anonymous)]

Same with canon; there are instances where I don't even want my ship to be canon, I'm fine with the show teasing me and not going there (because it might change the character dynamics too much, or the show might start to focus on romance, etc).

This is kind of my attitude, too. If a favorite pairing of mine DOES become canon I won't exactly complain about it, 'cause hey, cool, they got together, yay. And if the pairing I like is gay or bi, it'd be especially cool to see them become canon and be accepted by the viewers.

But be they straight/gay/bi, I don't automatically expect any of my favorite pairings to become canon, and won't get upset if they don't. In my case, it's often because I see how shows tend to treat couples who get together-they can never just be happy and in love, they've got to break up or go through some other ridiculous drama or whatever. And I really don't want to watch my favorite pairing go through that and have fans come to hate them and bitch about their relationship drama dragging the show down.

Plus, I too am a bit of a sucker for what the OP talks about here-the subtext, the "just dancing on the edge of getting together" tension, the unrequited feelings. I think there's some good stories to be mined from that, and makes moments between my favorite pairing on the show more fun to play with in fanfiction.

I agree with you, too, that there are ways to have that happen with a same sex couple that don't read as queerbating. Many of them go through the same "will they/won't they?" that straight couples do, after all, so it's logical that part of their relationship will be explored in stories, and it can be handled with respect.

As long as a writer stays true to the character's feelings and reactions regarding their relationships (or anything else in their life, really), I think they should be okay :).

POI spoilers

[elaminator]

And if the pairing I like is gay or bi, it'd be especially cool to see them become canon and be accepted by the viewers.

I do think I get a special kick from same-sex pairings becoming canon because it's less common. I was shocked when Person of Interest went there with Shaw and Root; sure, there was plenty of hinting, but I didn't think it would ever actually happen in canon. A less shocking example was Agron/Nasir in Spartacus; Spartacus had already included gay and lesbian characters/pairings and I could see the spark of interest and the attraction between the characters, but a part of me was still a bit worried it wouldn't be made explicit. (Though I was sitting there telling myself, "Nah, NAH, THAT IS THIRST!") It's nice to see canon open to same-sex pairings.

I don't automatically expect any of my favorite pairings to become canon, and won't get upset if they don't.

I've shipped so many non-canon pairings... SO many. I don't either; I'm used to them being only subtext.

it's often because I see how shows tend to treat couples who get together-they can never just be happy and in love, they've got to break up or go through some other ridiculous drama or whatever.

You have an excellent point there. Couples can't stay happy, something always has to pop up and cause drama; happy couples are considered 'boring'. That irritates me as well, even though in some cases it can work for the characters and story, it often just feels like a shallow attempt to encourage angst.

I don't watch either show, but I always see Bones and Castle fans complaining about how their show has handled romance.

Many of them go through the same "will they/won't they?" that straight couples do, after all, so it's logical that part of their relationship will be explored in stories, and it can be handled with respect.

Exactly! And "Will they/won't they" can be rewarding. (There's a certain point for me where it stops being entertaining and starts being frustrating and anger inducing, but before that point it's beautiful.)

[(Anonymous)]

Did I make this secret in my sleep?

[ketita]

I am exactly like this, and I also kind of worry about the queerbaiting thing.
I like it when romances aren't too confirmed, and I like it when as a fan I'm left to pick my own. Also there's the fact that too often author's don't do the best job crafting the romance, imo, and I'd have rather they invested more in just the characterization and less in the romance.

So that's kind of how I want to write.

[(Anonymous)]

There's a difference between queerbaiting and a subtly done hinted romance. Queerbaiting by definition demands that the characters be backtracked to being SO STRAIGHT THEY AREN'T GAY, GUYS even after a scene that can be read with strong homoerotic subtext. With the sense that they are putting those scenes in for reasons that don't have to do with the real integrity of the plot and characters - like to please viewers or seem edgy/artistic, without actually having to deal with the gay identification. Queerbaiting media is, for all intents and purposes, the straight girl who gets drunk and makes out with other girls for the purpose of titillating men.

Conversely, romantic subtext, especially homo-romantic/erotic subtext, does not do the "we're straight!" backtracking and is a more legitimate, and even possibly fully intentional reading of characters. It's still not satisfying to those who want to see more distinct LGB representation in media, but I do think there's an art to subtextual romances.

So I know what you mean, OP. I don't often like canon romances because they're so easy to get clunky and awkward, and I kind of enjoy reading between the lines and filling in the gaps with my own imagination. I'm gay myself and as much as I want to see more canon gay characters, I also feel that when canon gay characters are involved in a romance in a mainstream show, they tend to be all about gayness, and aren't usually as well-written.

[likeadeuce]

"I also feel that when canon gay characters are involved in a romance in a mainstream show, they tend to be all about gayness, and aren't usually as well-written."

Do you have an example for that? Do you mean relationships where the show makes a big deal about the character being gay but doesn't do anything with them after that happens? This seems to me like something shows have been improving on, but I'm saying that as a possibly oblivious straight person.

[(Anonymous)]

I mean, I feel like if a character is canon gay, then their storylines must inevitably revolve around their gayness. There's very little mystery with who they will "end up with" because, token gay character established, the rest of the cast can be safely established as straight. If there is a love interest, that love interest will also be established as gay, so the pair can fit together neatly, without much of any surprise. (and it is very rare for a main character to "come out as gay" significantly into the series, usually it's dealt with early on, so if there's only one token gay character the love interest should be either a new character, or a minor side character). The storylines are often about gay issues, homophobia, "being comfortable" with the relationship, being "out", etc. Which maybe isn't completely unrealistic, but it's obviously a very different formula than straight relationships, and far more limited. I prefer gay relationships that are treated with the same sense of mystery and possibility as straight relationships, but that is really rare. So in that sense, subtextual homosexual relationships have more potential because they don't have to follow the same tired tropes or obsess about the LGBT nature of the relationship.

[(Anonymous)]

Queerbaiting needs an "UGH NO HOMO" somewhere along the line. The "baiting" part comes from "bait and switch". If you're just writing a subtle romance, that's fine, enjoy.

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe put in some queer relationships that aren't for plot, but just background?

I mean I'm assuming that you have some background canon het couples that are just assumed, because the main characters had to come from somewhere? (unless it's something like they're video game characters that spawned from nothingness or otherwise fantasy method of non-sexual reproduction/creation) so add in some canon queer ones too. One of your side characters was raised by her two dads. Someone else was adopted because while their parents are straight their mom was DMAB. The couple that your subtly-hintingly lesbian barista is serving coffee to are two black guys.

You don't have to write about explicitly queer relationships, but you also don't have to assume every side character is automatically straight either.

Believe me, while it's nice to be the protagonist, sometimes it's nice to just get a subtle shout out, and then you don't get the NO HOMO vibe where the protagonists couldn't possibly be really queer, because queerness doesn't appear to exist in universe.

[(Anonymous)]

There aren't any side characters. It's just one group in a ghost town.