[ SECRET POST #3263 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3263 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 019 secrets from Secret Submission Post #466.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

08. http://i.imgur.com/o4CwhrX.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not going to comment on Kohaku, but I disagree on Hisui being meant to be read as male (disregarding D&D spoilery nonsense that cropped up fifteen years later). She's essentially a heavenly Kaho Mizuki with bleached hair, and compared to Ryuki and Ransho, it's pretty obvious that she's at least designed as female.

That said, you didn't miss out on much, and I always found it hilarious that DEMONS ARE MALE AND ANGELS ARE FEMALE IT'S JUST A TRANSLATION CONVENTION... well except for Haru and Ruri and Ryuki and Ransho, who cannot convincingly be taken for the other gender.

[feotakahari]

Wait, Kohaku and Hisui, like the siblings from Tales of Hearts? Do those names have a special meaning when paired?

[vethica]

They're Japanese for amber and jade, respectively.

[feotakahari]

So ToH has amber and jade, plus characters named Beryl, Chalcedony, Peridot, Graphite . . .

Now I'm wondering what the hell the fan translators were thinking when they decided Pyrox should be called Byrocks.

[(Anonymous)]

AFAIK all the angels were named after gemstones, so it could be that? Kohaku is amber, I think.

[(Anonymous)]

I dunno, I think I agree with OP / disagree that Hisui has a female design. Since the angels in Wish are meant to be genderless, it seems to me the design is meant to be a bit of a genderfuck, which seems to entail "very femme man" rather than a straight up female design (or "butch woman").

Well, I mean, it's all a bit confusing because you're right that the appearance definitely reads as female (that is, indistinguishable from a blonde Kaho Mizuki), but at the same time, it seems like the author intent is for that feminine appearance to be "misleading" in a way (i.e. Hisui is not in fact female like Kaho Mizuki is, suggesting a simultaneous/offsetting male aspect).

[(Anonymous)]

Hisui was interpreted as male though in Lawful Drug. Whatever his name was there...

[(Anonymous)]

I personally suspect massive retcon re. Lg/d&d. Whateverdude is the opposite of Hisui personality-wise, until there is a ten-year hiatus and then BOOM lol nope he was just pretending to be a humongous prick all along. I do think that clamp were doing the whole intentionally androgynous thing with Kohaku, but Hisui (and the water angel) look too much like other female character of theirs for me to buy it.

[bubblebuttangel]

Unfortunately, as you say, gender neutral pronouns are very difficult. I've had to resort at least once to choosing a gender pronoun for Kohaku because continually typing "they" or "Kohaku" or "the angel" can get redundant if you have them doing several things at once. Plus, I wonder how many people actually know this series, since I know I've met more than one CLAMP fan who says it doesn't exist because it has a "happy ending" lol.

[(Anonymous)]

I think Lawful Drug kind of answered the question of gender in this case. They're all male in that version.
I agree with OP even though yes, there is a tradition in europe to assume "female" when presented with genderless. there is also a tradition of the opposite, though. see most angels in european tradition.
So since this is about angels and demons, I think yes, the translators (in my case, germany, aswell) used genders according to behavioral stereotypes. Kôryû ended up with male pronouns iirc.

[(Anonymous)]

As a translator myself, I consider this manga to be a nightmare to translate.

Why would calling them all male be any more accurate than calling the masculine ones male and the feminine ones female? Why not call them all "she"? Isn't calling them all "he" kind of sexist? It's assuming male as the default.

I think the translators did the best they could. You could say it's essentialist to call the masucline ones "he" and the feminine ones "she" but... nothing else really works.