[ SECRET POST #3309 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3309 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 053 secrets from Secret Submission Post #473.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Well, a refugee did just stab a Refugee center worker to death in Sweden (following an increased amount of sexual assaults that have been repeatedly downplayed and covered up by Swedish police). So there might be a reason why male Muslims are viewed as scary.

[(Anonymous)]

Also, two weeks or so ago there was a stoning of two transwomen in Germany. The barring of Muslim men from swimming pools, also in Germany, for harassing female patrons. And those are just two of the not mass attacks that the press is attempting to downplay.

[hwc]

What stoning of two transwomen in Germany?

[(Anonymous)]

http://www.queerty.com/two-trans-women-stoned-by-migrants-in-germany-20160119

Google is your friend

[(Anonymous)]

Jesus.

[hwc]

Actually, google wasn't my friend without the city name. Google's top results without Dortmund were all about this:

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/bayern/transsexueller-fluechtling-verfolgt-bedroht-geschlagen-1.2707237

(A transwoman refugee repeatedly attacked by an Iraqui refugee for being transsexual. Which, for the record: Jesus. Fuck. They forced her to live under the same roof as the guy that attacked her and sent her to the hospital?!)

[(Anonymous)]

It just keeps on keeping on.

[(Anonymous)]

Same here in Finland. The news about rapes and other sexual harassment committed by them are getting way too common, like the gang rape at the central railway station in our capital, of all places (even though our press tried to downplay these things at first as well).

[(Anonymous)]

You know how it goes here. The second a newspaper says that it was a male refugee who did it (even though he did, in fact, do it) they're horrible racist scum. The second a woman says they feel unsafer than before because of the refugees, she's a racist scum. The attacks are also never the refugess fault, those poor oppressed darlings who're confused because they should treat women as human beings here! It's the women who should know better than to walk around alone wearing clothes in the middle of a day.

I think those Sons fo Odin guys are racist scum, but at the same time I think that it's the state's ridiculous "let's take them all in even though we're struggling to go by and practically no one wants them here, also we cna't possibly tell them that if you touch a woman without permission, it's back to home for you you piece of shit" policy's fault that they even exist.

/another Finn

[ypsilon42]

Okay so I googled this and what you are saying is incorrect at best.

First of all you seem to use muslim, refugee and man of arabian descent pretty much like they all mean the same. They don't.

In Dortmund three teenagers that spoke Arabic insulted and attacked two trans women. One of the women spoke Arabic herself. The religion of no one was actually reported and the teenagers are described as repeat offenders known to the police, so they are most likely not asylumseekers. Also, while the whole thing was clearly horrible, no one was seriously injured.

As for the second story one swimming pool in Bonn introduced a ban on refugees (again, not muslims), after sexual harrasment complaints. There was a lot of backlash against this and it has already been lifted again.

Sources (in German, sorry):
here, here and here

[(Anonymous)]

Why are you attempting to excuse this behaviour? If I use one word out of line (because the nomenclature for PC speak changes constantly and not keeping up is offensive) then I'm some kind of scum. These people, be they new off the boat/plane/however they're arriving or residents who just haven't bothered to assimilate into western culture are warping the society around them. "No one was seriously hurt"? They threw rocks at people who didn't measure up to their belief system. If those boys had been westerners then the banging on about how unsafe it was to be trans would have been unending.

Equal standards, please.

[ypsilon42]

I am not trying to excuse this kind of behavior and I am sorry if it sounded that way. I totally agree that it's transphobic and pretty much inexcusable. People who do stuff like that are assholes, no matter their religion or race.

But, I think it is also wrong to use this kind of transphobic behavior from individuals to judge an entire group of people. The anon I replied to claimed that this thing happening was somehow connected to the recent influx of refuegees in Germany and Europe, when in reality the offenders probably were not recent refugees but have been in Germany for some time. Also anon tried to use transphobia as a reason that muslims are scary, when the article does not even mention the religion of anyone. While, I admit it is pretty likely that Arabic speaking teenagers are muslim, one of the women also spoke Arabic (and is named Yasmine) and is by that logic also very likely muslim.

Of course their behaviour was transphobic and tbh it's not even unlikely that it was also religiously motivated, but I think it is pretty ridiculus to claim that the transphobia in our culture is mainly connected to Islam or even religion in general. Evidenced for example by the police in this story describing the women as "male transvestites". What I think is that transphobia is something that is sadly very prevalent in our society (as in European society) as a whole and that it is silly to pretend that Islam is a very big reason for that.

I hope you still see this anon, and that I better explained my stance on the matter.

[(Anonymous)]

No one is judging an entire group of people. However, when said group of people come from a culture where it is normal and acceptable to treat women as second class citizens, migrate, and continue that behaviour in their new home, targeting women for assault and rape because of their western clothes and mode of conducting their lives, then that will draw comment.

Right now there is a major campaign in most western countries to promote 'yes means yes', including such practices as constant verification by men that whatever attention they are paying to women is wanted.

Okay, fine. A bit bureaucratic, the way some people want selfies taken and forms signed and uploaded to the cloud, but that's not really the point. What is the point, is why aren't the migrant, largely muslim men coming to Europe being held to this same standard? Why are people including politicians and law enforcement officers making excuses for them and suggesting with various degrees of emphasis that WESTERN women modify their behaviour? Why is it only when the attacks are completely egregious (like the one at New Year's eve) is there some sort of statement from officials, and even then they seem to say a lot of nothing useful?

It's a troubling situation, with no easy solutions, but there it is.

[hwc]

ypsilon42 did not call you "some kind of scum". They said that the things you said are incorrect. This is one of the big problems with the refugee debate and why talking about any issue gets so out of hand - people immediately get defensive, even if it's not warranted.

And let's be honest here, if the attackers had been westerners then the story would have hardly been reported. Germany as a whole is still rather transphobic. (According to ypsilon's first linked article the police reported the two transwomen to be "male transvestites", a judge told a transfemale refugee that she "didn't have to show her inclination" and even the newspaper that reported the story called her "he" when talking about her before she came out and makes it sound as if her being transgender was her decision.)

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know anything about this story but isn't fair to say that it's more likely that some of the refugees, just a tiny portion, are not well-off in the head? Kinda like... oh, I dunno... a tiny portion of EVERYONE ELSE?

Mental illness isn't limited to one or some groups. Same thing with general evil/sociopathy. And there are non-Muslims among the refugees. I'm pretty sure that, among the not-so-great bits in the Quran, there is NOT a line that says "go out and kill random people just 'because."

[(Anonymous)]

#notallmuslims

[(Anonymous)]

there is NOT a line that says "go out and kill random people just 'because."

But there is specifically a call to kill nonbelievers.

Ibn Ishaq: 992 – “Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah."

[(Anonymous)]

I thought that was cited to be done only in times of war when the infidels attack them first?

[(Anonymous)]

I am nayrt, and I have no idea of the context, but I would say that if what you've cited is true "only in times of war when the infidels attack them first", there is still a lot of wiggle room in that statement. "Times of war" doesn't necessarily need to be a specifically declared war, but could probably be phrased as upheaval or social dissent. "Infidels attack them first" could easily be parsed as unbelievers who are attacking or not respecting their religious belief, or are blasphemous, etc. etc.

[(Anonymous)]

Google sexual assault and refugee centers, Sweden, Germany, Denmark, the country doesn't matter. The PTBs are now thinking they need to 'educate' muslim men that western women aren't fresh meat for the taking. They're also telling women who work or live anywhere near the resettlement areas to modify their dress and behaviors to make themselves less of a target.

[(Anonymous)]

Jfc

[ceebeegee]

They're also telling women who work or live anywhere near the resettlement areas to modify their dress and behaviors to make themselves less of a target.

Are you fucking serious? Can I have a cite please, before my head explodes?!

[(Anonymous)]

Note: I just catch the occasional headlines, but this is what a couple of minutes of search engine use turned up.

Teaching Western Culture: (Search term: refugees to be offered rape culture training)

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/20/world/europe/norway-offers-migrants-a-lesson-in-how-to-treat-women.html?_r=0

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/norway-teaching-refugees-about-sexual-consent-a6780536.html

search term germany women should dress modestly around refugees

http://www.thelocal.de/20150626/refugee-school-calls-for-uniform-modesty

http://gatesofvienna.net/2016/01/mayor-reker-theres-no-evidence-that-the-molesters-were-refugees-and-besides-women-should-stay-away-from-them/

(Minus Germany)
http://www.weaselzippers.us/234816-finnish-school-advises-women-to-dress-modestly-to-avoid-offending-muslim-refugees/

[hwc]

As someone who lives in Germany and a place where we get a lot of refugees: no one has told us to modify the way we dress or behave. I can't speak for other countries and maybe there have been isolated cases in Germany I don't know about, but it's definitely not a thing here the way AYRT makes it sound.

The only thing I have heard about anything close to this happening here in Germany would be Cologne's mayor comments, and while those were certainly stupid and sexist, they weren't about refugees. One of the links anon above posted are about Reker's comments, but they were translated wrong. Reker said to keep an arm's length between you and strangers, not foreigners. And the "behavioural regulations", which the article makes out to be some sort of compulsory code of conduct, are just tips posted on the city's website for girls on how to stay safe at a party or during a night out (explaining date rape drugs, how to get home safely, how to get a taxi, etc.)

[(Anonymous)]

It's not mental illness, it's incompatible socialization. Where these men are from, unaccompanied women and those in normal western clothing are whores. They aren't modifying their behaviour now that they're in the west.