[ SECRET POST #3336 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3336 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 059 secrets from Secret Submission Post #477.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Feminism, but not like that

[(Anonymous)]

What beliefs makes someone a radfem as opposed to a regular feminist?

The "red flags," if you will. What do you look out for?

Re: Feminism, but not like that

[(Anonymous)]

TERF ideology.

Belief that sexism is the only truly important -ism and that solidarity between women should trump all other types of solidarity.

Political lesbianism (as opposed to actual lesbianism, which is about being attracted to women and not making a political statement).

Condoning abuse perpetrated by women and dismissing abuse perpetrated against men.

Racist/xenophobic concern trolling disguised as feminist activism.

Re: Feminism, but not like that

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Pretty much this.

Re: Feminism, but not like that

[badass_tiger]

I find political lesbianism almost bizarre. When I saw that episode of Community where Britta and another girl pretended they were lesbians to each other, I actually had to ask someone else if that was a thing that happened irl. It's almost the exact opposite of feminism :/

Re: Feminism, but not like that

[(Anonymous)]

I'd say that political lesbianism is anti-LGBTetc. because they choose to be "lesbians" unlike the actual ones.

Re: Feminism, but not like that

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

It totally is the opposite of feminism. And rationality.

When I first came out of the closet I decided it was my duty to read aaaaaaaall the LGBT literature I could get my hands on, and an unfortunate side effect of that was I kept coming across these insane radfem screeds that talked about homosexuality as though it's a choice, which... no. I didn't choose to be this way, what the fuck.

Re: Feminism, but not like that

[(Anonymous)]

Belief that sexism is the only truly important -ism

I don't think I'm a radfem, but I do agree with this. I heard once that sexist aggression against women is historically the fist model of aggression, and as such all other forms of bigotry follow this model. Which always made sense to me in that early man would have had to go looking for another tribe to hate and oppress, but he would have had early woman right there on his doorstep. Mankind has learned how to oppress from the model of their treatment of women. With that in mind I don't think it's radical to conclude that sexism is the first and worst act of social violence.

I agree about all the rest, just not that one.

Re: Feminism, but not like that

[(Anonymous)]

You could argue the same of classism. Early tribes had leaders and class differentiation as well.

Re: Feminism, but not like that

[(Anonymous)]

Ye, but even then the lowest of the classes were still women.

Re: Feminism, but not like that

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, but here's where that line of thinking gets iffy:

Let's say you're part of a racial or ethnic group that historically has been (and continues to be) persecuted and demonized. Now let's say that the feminists calling for solidarity among ALL women are the very same feminists bashing your people for being "backwards and patriarchal", and in doing so are inadvertently making use of the very same rhetoric that has historically been used to justify the slaughter of your people.

Let's go a step further and say that these feminists aren't actually interested in hearing the perspectives of you and other women from your group; they just want to make you into another cause they can fight for to feel good about themselves and further their personal agendas. They will ignore the feminist activism and other subversive activities of women WITHIN your culture so they can build up this White Saviour sort of narrative around themselves, wherein they rescue the Poor Oppressed Minority Women from the EEEEEEVIL Barbaric Minority Culture. (And if that makes them complacent in spreading racist/xenophobic ideas, so what? The Feminist Agenda is more important that anything else.)

Now do you see why some of us are wary of the idea that solidarity between women is always the #1 Most Important Thing Ever and all other social justice issues can and should be pushed aside in favour of it?

Re: Feminism, but not like that

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Agreed. Although, the reverse is also true. I sometimes get annoyed with people who talk about this, but then aren't willing to talk about, for example, minority men being sexist (or gay men). It goes both ways. No one type of oppression is better or worse than any other. And I do sometimes feel like sexism is almost seen as not as bad as other forms of oppression by some people.

Re: Feminism, but not like that

[dethtoll]

Yup, this.

Re: Feminism, but not like that

[feotakahari]

I don't really distinguish between the two. Someone who's otherwise extreme can make a few good points, and someone who's mostly reasonable can go off on someone for stupid reasons.

Re: Feminism, but not like that

[(Anonymous)]

You don't distinguish between the two but can acknowledge someone as "someone who's otherwise extreme"? Isn't that the definition of a radical feminist? Isn't "someone who's mostly reasonable" not a radical feminist?

Re: Feminism, but not like that

[kallanda_lee]

-Hating men as a group/class

-Being pro-female and anti-man rather than being pro-equality

- double measures (i.e. you can't hit a woman even if she's coming at you with a knife, but men are inherently violent so you can punch them, but hey we're equal here)

-Generally also bad attitudes towards trans people

-Unrealistic world view (over emphasis on certain issues, buying into false statistics etc)

-Generally also unhealthy views on sex and relationships

- Denying (sexual) violence against men exists

- belittling problems men face (not necessarily because they're men). I.e. "He's disabled, but he's a guy, so who cares)

- Seeing sexism everywhere in daily life and believing this is the main issue in their life.

- Over-emphasis on (their own) gender.

Re: Feminism, but not like that

[(Anonymous)]

buying into false statistics etc

Such as?

Seeing sexism everywhere in daily life

I never get how people can not see sexism in their daily life. It's fucking everywhere.

Over-emphasis on (their own) gender

I'm not sure I follow you on this one, what do you mean?

Re: Feminism, but not like that (tw:rape mention)

[kallanda_lee]

buying into false statistics etc

Such as the 1 in 4 rape statistic, which was from a very dubious survey (yes, survey, not even scientific study).

Such as statistics used for unequal pay (that IS a thing, but unfortunately many of those statistics did count women who deliberately work part-time, making the difference seem bigger).

I never get how people can not see sexism in their daily life.

Of course it exists in everyday life. But if you have 12 situations a day where you actively consider it a hurdle I do think your view might be a bit obsessive.

Over-emphasis on (their own) gender

I guess a better way to put it would be : consider gender the most important part of their own or someone else identity and being.

Re: Feminism, but not like that

[dancingmouse]

Hating men just because their men.

Believing in Double Standards that favor women and disregard men.

Seeing sex between a man and a woman as abuse, or even rape, just because a man is involved.

Disregarding abuse/rape towards men.

Thinking that MtF Transsexuals aren't real women.

Attacking/bullying/refusing to listen to other people who don't agree with their view on sexism/feminism/other various Women's rights issues.

Re: Feminism, but not like that

[diet_poison]

Thinking women need to be elevated above men, that men aren't capable of being responsible non-violent people, or that bad treatment of men isn't as bad as bad treatment of women. Or that men can't be raped, or things like that.

IDK. most actual radfems in my experience call themselves radfems so it's not hard to pick them out. I pretty much never interact with them myself - the circles I'm in are pretty even-keeled.

ETA: remembered a really weird one - thinking all PIV sex is rape. There are some radfems who actually believe that. o.O

Re: Feminism, but not like that

[kallanda_lee]

Yeah I've come across the PIV=rape thing. It boggles the mind.

Content warning: This thread has discussions of rape and abuse.

[(Anonymous)]

OP here.

I should have put a warning on the whole thread. Sorry.

Re: Content warning: This thread has discussions of rape and abuse.

[(Anonymous)]

hahaha... you slow.

this thread is commencing and going to different directions.

Re: Feminism, but not like that

[(Anonymous)]

The major red flags:

- misandry

- sex negativity

- victim mentality

I'm a Christina Hoff Sommers-style feminist, though, so I think most of FS is pretty radical. I get called an MRA here quite a bit.

Re: Feminism, but not like that

[(Anonymous)]

Who is Christina Hoff Sommers?

And what do you mean by sex negativity? Are you talking about calling het sex rape? Or are you talking about judging women who are sexually active? Because I think both of those are bad. But I also think extreme sex positivism to the point where the person judges women who aren't sexually active and isn't willing to talk about the sexism in the porn industry or in the way women are sexualized in media (and women aren't).

Re: Feminism, but not like that

[(Anonymous)]

Christina Hoff Sommers is a former philosophy professor and persona non grata in feminist circles due to her adherence to equity feminism as opposed to gender feminism. She talks about this stance in her 1995 book Who Stole Feminism? She's frequently villainized by feminists, banned from speaking at universities, etc. due to her views. She just spoke alongside Milo Yiannopoulos at the University of Minnesota to provide a feminist point of view because everyone in the Women's Studies department refused to debate him.

By the way, I'd add that to the list of red flags: refusing to engage in discourse with those who do not share your opinion or needing a safe space when confronted with dissenting ideas.

extreme sex positivism to the point where the person judges women who aren't sexually active

I see nothing positive about judging other women on the basis of their sexuality.

isn't willing to talk about the sexism in the porn industry or in the way women are sexualized in media (and women aren't)

Yes, this is the area that gets tricky for me. There are many women who enjoy porn and many women who enjoy sexualized and/or objectifying portrayals of women. Feminism can be guilt-trippy about that.