fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3358 ]

[ SECRET POST #3358 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3358 ⌋

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Is objectification a function of fear - "I fear rejection by this woman, but if she's an object not a person It will be ok" Hatred - "I hate women and am unwilling to think of women as people" Lust - "I don't care about this person as anything other than how they serve my desire" or something else I'm not thinking of?

nah

None of the above. If I had to say anything, I'd say it's closest to laziness.

I'd elaborate but I'm on my phone and I probably won't have enough energy to care about anything by the time that I got home.

That's a shame, I'd be interested in knowing your thoughts on this. I hadn't considered laziness.

As predicted I don't really have the energy but in brief what I'm saying is that encountering others as human beings and paying attention in that way takes active energy on some level, and it's also a habit of mind that you have to practice. And society drains us of energy and alienates us and the easy way out is to just not bother remembering common humanity and just going the easy way out and only focusing on your immediate desires. And I think socialization encourages this in multiple ways, especially for men: popular culture encourages objectification through its depictions of people and the models it provides, and society also fails to train men in that particular kind of attention and expose them to those necessary points of view.

+1. I am way late to the discussion, but yes, I would say laziness as well.

It's bullshit. That's all.

It's a function of grammar.

In English sentences, the subject is the actor in the sentence, the object is the acted-upon. "He saved her" "I want you" "We died for her" and "He fucked her" are all sentences where the subject is male and the object is female. Even in the second and third, where gender is ambiguous, the roles being fulfilled are coded male and female.

Our society takes it for granted on a very deep level that men act, while women are acted upon. Men fuck, women are fucked. Men are active, women are passive. Men exercise, women diet. Men get angry, women get depressed. Menswear is functional, women's wear is decorative. It shows up throughout everything.

The term "object" is a grammatical one. All else flows from that.

That's actually a myth. Objectification started in feminist theory and was adopted into a grammatical idea. The root is in feminism and all else flows from that.

...really. You want to claim that the notion of subject and object in English grammar dates only from the last 60 years? That's where you want to go with this? Because that's checkable.

Re: Objectification question

(Anonymous) - 2016-03-15 00:24 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Objectification question

(Anonymous) - 2016-03-15 00:41 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Objectification question

(Anonymous) - 2016-03-15 02:15 (UTC) - Expand

Lust, I think?

I think it depends on how you (or they) define objectification? I mean, to me, objectification is solely "This is not a person I am looking at, they are just there for my personal enjoyment [whatever that may be]." but I don't find ~sexy ads~ or nudity in films/TV shows objectifying unless the person watching them is so detached that the sexy/nude person ceases to be a person to them.

But maybe I'm naive.

Yes.

But what you're not considering is that the fear and lust elements are also a function of the hatred.

Objectification is something everyone does because our brains are lazy and don't feel like creating or connecting with A) everyone we meet B) Someone in a picture/movie who isn't really real to us.

And it isn't really a bad thing as long as you are not using it to justify hurting someone.

it's a factor of humans having a sex drive and wanting to fuck like rabbits

None of the above, it's a function of detachment.

e.g. in the US centuries ago, plantation owners objectified slaves.

It's not always about sex or gender.

nayrt

It's not always about sex or gender.
I think that's a very naive way of thinking of it.

Re: Objectification question

(Anonymous) - 2016-03-15 00:12 (UTC) - Expand

I can debunk your fear theory by pointing out that if it was fear men wouldn't treat women they have already captured as objects and they clearly do so it's not a fear of rejection.

Do your own homework.

I was thinking this. Sounds like OP has a women's study assignment due in tomorrow.

Here's a life hack for you OP, you can usually get a partial credit with the answer "Because men are evil".

They are doing their homework. Now shut up while people are doing their homework.

It comes from practice and tradition and nothing else

Men objectify women because they are taught to, because the have always done, and don't care enough to think to change. Look at feminist men, they can unlearn it. Most don't, but that's not because they fear hate or lust after us, it's because they have a lifetime's worth of practice at it

Where this tradition started tho? Who can say. Maybe early man had his own reasons for treating women like objects and the tradition just built from there, but early man doesn't exist to examine anymore so no-one can say why it started.

It's telling that you state your question in terms of men objectifying women.

OP here! Is it? What does it tell?

Re: Objectification question

(Anonymous) - 2016-03-15 00:26 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Objectification question

(Anonymous) - 2016-03-15 00:30 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2016-03-15 00:46 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2016-03-15 00:54 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2016-03-15 01:00 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2016-03-15 02:28 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Objectification question

(Anonymous) - 2016-03-15 03:01 (UTC) - Expand

Objectification is a function. It is a function which - at its worst, at its root - gives [X person or group] the ability to value the parts of [Y person or group] which they are able to use for their own benefit, while simultaneously allowing [X person or group] to be contemptuous and negligent towards [Y person or group] as a whole. It essentially perpetuates a cycle of maximum gain in return for minimal investment where interactions between people and groups are concerned.

For example, it allows men to fetishize "pussy" while simultaneously having contempt for women in non-subservient capacities, and it allows white Americans to heap much of the hardest and least rewarding work on people of color while simultaneously being resentful and contemptuous towards the people of color who preform said work.

So I guess I would say objectification is a function of laziness, fear, and desire, all intersecting and playing into each other. Fear that these entities you rely on to maintain your way of life cannot be trusted to continue doing what you want them to do. Desire that they continue doing what you want them to do. And the laziness of wanting (expecting) to retain these services at minimal personal cost; laziness which then causes fear, because rationally we know that a relationship in which you are getting more than you deserve and giving less than you ought to in return is inherently unstable.

I think hatred is less the cause of objectification, and more one of its outcomes. We hate a living thing we treat badly, so that we can continue to feel justified in treating it badly. Arguably, we also hate a living thing we treat badly because we can't help but project our contempt for our own behavior onto our victim.

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