fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3431 ]

[ SECRET POST #3431 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3431 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[J.R.R. Tolkien's The Silmarillion]

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[Wil Wheaton]

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[Mughal-E-Azam]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 07 secrets from Secret Submission Post #490.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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why would anyone at all work then

100% of humanity suddenly decides not to work, yet they get money anyway. Does your plan involve magic?

what is volunteering

where is this volunteering happening and by who

"Everyone gets a decent livable wage just for existing" is not the same as "everyone gets the same amount of money regardless of any other factors."

In other words, the reason people continue to work is because they want more money than the basic income provides.

wow fuck no if I got a decent living wage for sitting on my ass all day no way in hell am I working. I'd think about 99% of humanity would agree.

good on the 1% who want a little bonus fun money for doing all of our farming, manufacturing, teaching, infrastructure maintenance, repair work, and doctoring.

My strong sense is that people actually care a lot about how much they make compared to others, and it would be a strong motivator for many people.

There's also a question of precisely how the level is set and what we mean by "decent living wage" but yeah.

lol no. your master plan relies on people wanting to work for a little extra when they already have everything they need. and now you're trying to qualify "decent living wage" to motivate more people?

there is zero way this would ever work. also, you seem to severely underestimate how much work actually is required to not only sustain a global population's basic needs but presumably "quality standard of living" including luxuries.

like, no. if I got a decent living wage I'd pretty much just masturbate and have sex all day, and make lots of babies. an army of babies. which would be dope because I assume they get wages, too. I also assume my wages cover the minor cost of a babysitter, which of course they actually wouldn't, because who the fuck would babysit ever if they didn't need the money.

Well, good luck with those babies since you wouldn't be able to afford toys or books or movies for them. In this hypothetical situation, THAT'S what you work for, the extra unnecessary stuff. Basic living wage would buy you a roof over your head, lights, heat, and food.

No. they said "decent living wage". Not "bare minimum wage to keep you from starving or freezing to death".

And even if was just that, sounds good to me, I can still pump out babies. Each baby gets that too after all.

Re: Controversial Opinions/Thoughts

nonnymouscawitz - 2016-05-27 00:45 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Controversial Opinions/Thoughts

(Anonymous) - 2016-05-27 00:48 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Controversial Opinions/Thoughts

nonnymouscawitz - 2016-05-27 01:13 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Controversial Opinions/Thoughts

sarillia - 2016-05-27 01:36 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Controversial Opinions/Thoughts

nonnymouscawitz - 2016-05-27 02:31 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Controversial Opinions/Thoughts

diet_poison - 2016-05-27 02:01 (UTC) - Expand

Basic living wage that covers food, shelter, clothing, medicine/doctors, and, like, soap, toilet paper, tampons, and condoms doesn't provide for movies, books, art supplies, cars (if you don't need to get to work do you need a car? You can teach those kids at home, too!) so fuck yeah I would work.

I'd be bored shitless once I ran out of books to read and art supplies to make things with, and growing/farming my own fibers, growing/mining/prepping/grinding and mixing my own dyes, sourcing my own pigments would eat all my time and still give inferior results to commercially produced stuff.

I would rather scrub toilets to earn hobby money than because if I don't clean 100 shit-covered toilets today I won't eat or have a roof over my head next month. Basic living wage =/= luxury. Just ask people whose food stamps don't cover toilet paper.

"you seem to severely underestimate how much work actually is required to not only sustain a global population's basic needs but presumably "quality standard of living" including luxuries."

+1
They also don't seem to get that many jobs are necessary but boring/dangerous, and if people didn't need to work there wouldn't be enough people to do them at all.

Not everyone is self-sacrificing and when there's no need, "doing what I want" is what people prioritize.

just because you're lazy doesn't mean "99%" of the world is

I really do not think this is true. You get enough money to cover basic boring food and a tiny apartment, and you get health care which is great. You cover all your basic expenses, but that's it. Most people want a place to live with more amenities, ownership of property, entertainment, travel, luxuries etc.

I'm not 100% in support of UBI at this point (haven't really done enough research) but I don't think this is a good argument against it.

Edited 2016-05-27 01:59 (UTC)

They probably think printing money and giving it around would be enough.

And what would be the point of having money if there isn't enough goods and services to be bought? Let humanity enjoy hyperinflation and learn why earning their living, instead of having others handing it down, is necessary? But that'd bring us back to the beginning...

Because oddly enough, some people really like to work.

I don't have to technically do anything (disabled due to traumatic brain injury).

But to keep myself busy, I write fanfiction and translate anime from Japanese to English.

I can't do it fast enough to hold a paying job in either realm (example: pro translators are supposed to translate a 30 minute episode in under an hour. It takes me twelve hours. That is not an exaggeration). But people enjoy what I do despite the lack of speed.

Not everyone is an innate slacker.

Ohhh translating anime, truly proof that the world would be saved. Some people just like picking up shit for a living, studying super hard to become a doctor to watch people die all day, doing construction work in 120 degree weather, cleaning out toilets.

Sure, some people like what they do to the level of it being a hobby. More people probably like their jobs for work but that doesn't mean it's what they'd be doing if they could do something else.

Blue sky thinking here, but maybe people will pick their shit up and clean their toilets because they like having clean toilets and not having shit around.

The idea that wage labor and market capitalism are the only ways to ensure those functions get done is ludicrous.

And "doctor" is a spectacularly bad choice of position to use as an example - it's hard to think of a job that people are more internally motivated to do.

ok, this is ridiculous. I think you're way too cynical to look at this objectively at all.

It's more ridiculous to think it remotely makes sense to give everybody free money to live comfortably off of, and expect people to be able to sustain that lifestyle or maintaining quality of life on a societal level purely based on working they don't have to do.

That is so absurdly stupid I cannot believe some people are seriously arguing this.

Who in this thread is advocating "free money to live comfortably off of"? Basic income =/= luxuries. I can't believe this has to be explained over and over again.

They kind of have a point, though. If everyone received a living wage for doing nothing, do you really think anyone in the entire country would ever scrub out a public toilet ever again? Or work a soulless retail job with shitty customers being shitty to them all day long?

The fact that proponents aren't really seeming to take into account is that a huge, huge chunk of people hate their jobs. As in, would drop them immediately if there weren't pressing cash issues.

It really is a nice thought, but there's honestly no way that it would work and keep our economy even remotely afloat.

People would work if there was enough incentive for them to do so.
Extra money for luxuries or hobbies or holidays and/or something fulfilling to do with their life, for example.

A lot of people are in jobs they hate because it's that or not having money at all. If there was guaranteed income regardless of working, more people would have the opportunity to seek out jobs they find fulfilling rather than a job solely as a means to pay the bills.
Or just spend time with their families, in the case of peeps who currently have to work three jobs just to get by.

And I'm pretty sure that most of the jobs that'd be dropped immediately would be the ones people tend to take for granted (especially soulless retail jobs).
Less people doing those jobs (because they'd have a choice to do otherwise) would result in more people realising how important those jobs are, through a lack of it.
And that would hopefully increase their appreciation for the people doing those jobs, instead of taking their presence for granted and taking stuff out on them.

Agreed about retail. And it'd be an incentive for big service-industry employers to actually treat their employees well. Better for the company to be in need of its employees than vice-versa, because the company holds so much power as it is.

But the work you like involves doing something you enjoy.
If that was enough to keep everything running smoothly, the world would be a happier place but sadly most necessary jobs require doing stuff we don't enjoy.

NAYRT--yeah, but doing fun shit, at least, fun shit that requires money, under a UBI system wouldn't be possible unless people worked. Like, making sure that everyone has food, shelter, clothes, medical care, and basic necessities like soap and toilet paper doesn't mean they have money for anything fun at all. I'm not in this position, but I've known people who are, who are so scraped to the bone that just staying alive, clothed, housed, and fed is a fucking miracle.

I really don't get people who think no-one would work if they had the basics, and only the basics, covered. Yeah, I can entertain myself up to a point. But I would like to maintain at least my current standard of living under a UBI system, which would require extra money-- money for hobbies, pets, travel, food that's not boring shelf-stable slop, clothes that aren't cheap and badly made, a house instead of a one room studio. I would totally scrub toilets or greasy pans (or insert other "gross" job, provided I could physically do it without fucking up) if it meant not living a life that provided enough to keep body and soul together but only my body healthy.

A UBI system wouldn't provide enough money for nights out, for theatre, for sporting events, just enough to keep everyone out of dire poverty that sees some people in my country (the USA) get by on two dollars a day. Little babies get taken to emergency rooms because they're going hungry, kids on free school lunch are sent home in some districts with backpacks of cheap food on weekends because otherwise they don't eat until Monday. Cities and counties are finding out it's way cheaper to house the homeless and provide them basic care than let them stay on the street and get sick and end up in the ER all the time.

All the "moral guardians" flipping out that people are intrinsically lazy and wouldn't work if they didn't have to creep me out. A UBI system isn't "everyone gets a nice house and a fast car," it's "everyone gets just enough to not have to scramble every minute of every day not to fucking die of dire poverty." I have a fairly good life with some disposable income, and I'd love it if everyone had at least what I have.

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