fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3470 ]

[ SECRET POST #3470 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3470 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

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It's a bit of an issue with representation.

People get angry if a story doesn't have representation similar to current experiences/fanfics trying to insert it aren't appreciated.

But creating a world where this shit isn't a problem is sometimes considered erasure.

But at the same time

1. It's once again the typical "the slimmer, slightly more effeminate of the two has to be the trans guy"

People like what they like. Something doesn't have to go against a popular trend to be valid.

Only it's not about representation in the vast majority of cases, it's a fetish.

I'd like to see your argument for that, considering most people posting that stuff appear to be young women/afabs into nonbinary/trans politics.

We aren't talking about crazy Destiel shippers here.

Wait. You got a source on that? Because from what I've seen it is mostly about sex.

Yep. It's so they can have a pairing without the icky gay.

Warning: Yes, I'm angry. Rant ahead.

Oh fuck off. This is transphobic as fuck. It's still "icky gay" if one guy is a trans man. The presence of one testosterone-enhanced front hole and clit doesn't negate the muscles, man smell, beard, body hair, etc.

What the fuck is with you people that think this? If you want to complain about people erasing "teh ghey" go after the fucking gender bend fanatics who need to morph one character into a cis female in order to ship a slash pairing.

But get the fuck out of here with criticizing the incredibly small amount of FtM headcanons for erasing your precious cis dick on cis dick, of which you have literally the entire internet full of. Trans men with cis men are still in a gay relationship. A gay cis man who falls in love and/or has sex with a trans man is still gay. They are still having gay sex.

There are different versions of this fetish. One is simply the fetish of the "other" which is really appealing to some.
But quite frankly? I'm very sure a huge number is just girls who want fic for popular ships but -as those popular ships are often slash ships- don't want to read actual gay sex. The trans fetish is a great SJ-approved way of genderbending - they can read sex with a traditional het genital setup while still pretending that it's totally a gay ship. This, imo, is evidenced by the massive attention those fics pay to the description of the traditionally female sex characteristics during sex scenes. Also, the often very fetishy descriptions of binders.

There might be a tiny amount of fic or art with representation in mind. But in my opinion, the vast majority is fetish fic.

This! OMG, I cannot tell you the amount of trans!fic I've seen where the trans!male is pre-op but has literally no body dysphoria beyond binding. They are always super enthused to have PIV sex and many of them don't actually seem to be working towards getting surgery. It is all about having a character that looks like a guy but has a vagina the other guy can fuck.

Are there really that many people who are into slash fic but put off by gay sex?

I mean is that really a big demographic in fandom in TYOOL 2016

I think these people aren't actually into slash fic, they are interested in reading stuff for a juggernaut ship that looks like it has interesting character dynamics but not actually want to read it with both characters as male. It's why genderbending one character in a slash ship was a thing long before the whole trans headcanon fetish fad.

Really?

I mean I don't think you're arguing in bad faith but are there any sources for this? Because it's a huge leap to go "I am uncomfortable with men fucking(unlike every generation of female scifi slash shippers since the 1970s) so I'm going to jump through the huge hoop of trans canons"

Edited 2016-07-05 00:05 (UTC)

I already said it's a mix of both. And I already said why I get this impression. I'm not sure what you're expecting, a scientific study? Because you know full well there is none. What's your evidence that these people are all about the representation with their fetish porn?

I'm not trying to be confrontational! It's just that you're talking about something I haven't seen and I was wondering if there might be links? That's all. To me it's a really weird transition.

Edited 2016-07-05 01:37 (UTC)

In some cases... I can kinda' see it? I mean even back Ye Olden Days of Yaoi I knew fangirls (or fen, as we called them) who were into the romantic aspects but who were decidedly uncomfortable with Dicks Touching and wanted more pregnancies than slash usually offers. Trans!headcanons (and A/B/O) seem like the perfect solution.

I mean I had RP partners who'd do graphic as all get out with het smut but would gloss over or black curtain their favourite yowie couple.

Honestly though they were in the minority ime, so maybe you're right. I don't know. In most of my Shootan Mans fandoms trans!headcanons are rare or non-existent, so... I can't say I've had much experience with the modern version of homo-squeamishness.

Huh, weird. Maybe this is something that changes a lot between fandoms? Because I've never seen this sort of thing in Star Trek.

It's definitely fandom-dependent. I only encountered it in shoujo manga and JRPG fandoms. Nothing else.

Same with trans!headcanons, though. In some you can trip over them, in others they're just straight up not a thing.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2016-07-05 05:40 (UTC) - Expand

NA

Lmfao what is with you people? As a trans guy not gonna lie most of this just reads like you and the AYRT not liking trans headcanons and fic and wanting to find a reason to hate it.

I'm in several fandoms where trans headcanons are, while not "popular" (seriously there is no fandom where you cannot easily avoid it if you want, even in fandoms where it "catches on"), they're numerous.

Literally every single author I've seen write trans!fic also writes slash fic, all across the board, different fandoms, different authors, etc. I find it hilarious that you're trying to claim that these are somehow fangirls who are afraid of gay sex.

Seriously, the way your comment reads is that you're basically pissed off trans men are considered men. It is still gay sex. It is not a "hetero genital setup", trans men's front holes often have a clit more like a micro penis than anything resembling a cis girl's vagina. And you know what? Even if we're talking a trans man who cannot for whatever reason get T for the masculinizing effects yet (because hey, not all 15-18 year olds can get it, and some settings don't have the tech, etc), it's still gay sex.

Like this is so easily avoided if you're not into trans headcanons, you have basically the entirety of fandom to get your cis dick on cis dick cravings met, so why the fuck do you feel the need to act like a genre where a lot of young AFAB questioning people test the waters by writing fic, and where trans men write the kind of fics they want to see, and where allies do the same thing is just a bunch of "SJ approved homophobes"?

The only thing I see here is a bunch of SJ approved transphobes. :(

The existence of some people fetishizing trans men's bodies doesn't invalidate the genre as a whole, and the type of people you're proselytizing about are so small in number as to be insignificant.

Funny, most of the DEstiel shippes I know are gay/bisexual people who are into wanting fair media representation of gay/bisexual people... but of course they are "all crazy DEstiel shippers, only there for their fic".

OTOH, we've had people here with secrets about how THEIR transcanon are only about the fetish for trans bodies (I think the latest was like a month ago?) so... there is evidence that there are people who have this fetish and are not into nonbinary/trans politics.

So can we stop with the demonization of shippers? Yeah, some shippers -of all kinds- are in it for the fetish. Some others for the representation. Why not err in the side of caution and agree that more representation is GOOD?

Found the Destiel person. For the record I got Destiel confused with the incest ship.

Edited 2016-07-05 00:07 (UTC)

AYRT

I rarely post here about Destiel. It's just the "but you just do it for the fetish" argument against all shiper that really gets me.

For the record: I've NEVER read a Wincest shipper claim they ship Wincest for gay representation. Most Wincest shippers kind of hate that particular line and will insist they're better shippers because they admit they're in it for the kink.

(OTOH, I guess it is hard to actually push for Incest to be accepted AND claim a moral high ground)

But be it Destiel, Wincest, Poe/Finn, Sterek, Outlawqueen, whatever.. my point is that w eshould stop just claiming that because they ship it, it's just a fetish thing for them and not an honest wish to see more LGBT+ people in media.

I'm not demonising anyone. I don't think having a fetish is bad. I just think it's silly to go "but it's representation" when you know full well that it's actually a fetish.
And quite honestly? Fetish porn that's actually potentially triggering to some trans people's dysphoria (words of a trans friend, not mine) isn't exactly a great type of "representation". Just call it what it is, it's not that hard.

i would say that fetishizing trans people like this is a little skeevier than just going wild for slash. like its obvious that a lot of writers just want to slap a vagina on a dude while ignoring that real trans people often will have terrible dysphoria about their genitals. it's not a "bonus hole" for most. i get that its fantasty and people can like what they like but its when people try to use them writing a trans character to get brownie points that things start getting unsettling

Fucking this!

NA

Except as a trans guy, hey, some of us really enjoy that fic? Like seriously, every single trans fic I've seen has it tagged "vaginal sex", "vaginal fingering", etc, you're not going to stumble upon something, and if you have bad dysphoria I wouldn't be reading explicit trans sex fics anyway considering like 85% of them I see are by cis authors who don't always get trans representation 100% okay even if they're honestly trying and open to change in the future.

I'd rather see trans guys who are alright with their bodies to be honest, (and if we're gonna be real like half the gay and bi trans men I know including myself are totally okay with using our front holes, so we're not an insignificant statistic) because by far the most "fetishy" thing I've seen in trans fic is when people try and tackle dysphoria, especially genital dysphoria, because it comes across less like "this guy has issues with his own genitals" and less like "OMFG EW PUSSIES ARE GROOSSSSSSS".

I vastly prefer guys who are at least semi cool with their bits, even if they're selective with their partners and need a higher than average level of trust before they allow said partner to penetrate them in the front hole, and I prefer cis partners who are cool with having a trans man as a partner. The dysphoria fest fics are honestly the only ones I can say truly make me squeamish as a trans man. Maybe I'd feel differently if I were a 14 year old proto-trans boy again, but in my late twenties, post top surgery, T for 5+ years, and non-op by choice?

Yeah, I like seeing trans headcanons where it's not all about ~dysphoria drama-o-rama~.

But that doesn't fit into the narrative of idiot SJW millenials ruining fandom, anon

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2016-07-05 09:17 (UTC) - Expand

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