[ SECRET POST #3470 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3470 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 35 secrets from Secret Submission Post #496.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's dumb for two reasons:
1. It's once again the typical "the slimmer, slightly more effeminate of the two has to be the trans guy"
2. This is a universe with perfectly useable bionic limbs, healing gel that's pretty damn powerful and all sorts of tech advantages like building weapons the size of planets. There is absolutely no reason why a guy of 34 would still be pre-OP in a world like this.

[chardmonster]

It's a bit of an issue with representation.

People get angry if a story doesn't have representation similar to current experiences/fanfics trying to insert it aren't appreciated.

But creating a world where this shit isn't a problem is sometimes considered erasure.

But at the same time

1. It's once again the typical "the slimmer, slightly more effeminate of the two has to be the trans guy"

People like what they like. Something doesn't have to go against a popular trend to be valid.

[(Anonymous)]

Only it's not about representation in the vast majority of cases, it's a fetish.

[chardmonster]

I'd like to see your argument for that, considering most people posting that stuff appear to be young women/afabs into nonbinary/trans politics.

We aren't talking about crazy Destiel shippers here.

[(Anonymous)]

Wait. You got a source on that? Because from what I've seen it is mostly about sex.

[(Anonymous)]

Yep. It's so they can have a pairing without the icky gay.

[(Anonymous)]

There are different versions of this fetish. One is simply the fetish of the "other" which is really appealing to some.
But quite frankly? I'm very sure a huge number is just girls who want fic for popular ships but -as those popular ships are often slash ships- don't want to read actual gay sex. The trans fetish is a great SJ-approved way of genderbending - they can read sex with a traditional het genital setup while still pretending that it's totally a gay ship. This, imo, is evidenced by the massive attention those fics pay to the description of the traditionally female sex characteristics during sex scenes. Also, the often very fetishy descriptions of binders.

There might be a tiny amount of fic or art with representation in mind. But in my opinion, the vast majority is fetish fic.

[(Anonymous)]

This! OMG, I cannot tell you the amount of trans!fic I've seen where the trans!male is pre-op but has literally no body dysphoria beyond binding. They are always super enthused to have PIV sex and many of them don't actually seem to be working towards getting surgery. It is all about having a character that looks like a guy but has a vagina the other guy can fuck.

[(Anonymous)]

Are there really that many people who are into slash fic but put off by gay sex?

I mean is that really a big demographic in fandom in TYOOL 2016

[chardmonster]

Really?

I mean I don't think you're arguing in bad faith but are there any sources for this? Because it's a huge leap to go "I am uncomfortable with men fucking(unlike every generation of female scifi slash shippers since the 1970s) so I'm going to jump through the huge hoop of trans canons"

[(Anonymous)]

NA

Lmfao what is with you people? As a trans guy not gonna lie most of this just reads like you and the AYRT not liking trans headcanons and fic and wanting to find a reason to hate it.

I'm in several fandoms where trans headcanons are, while not "popular" (seriously there is no fandom where you cannot easily avoid it if you want, even in fandoms where it "catches on"), they're numerous.

Literally every single author I've seen write trans!fic also writes slash fic, all across the board, different fandoms, different authors, etc. I find it hilarious that you're trying to claim that these are somehow fangirls who are afraid of gay sex.

Seriously, the way your comment reads is that you're basically pissed off trans men are considered men. It is still gay sex. It is not a "hetero genital setup", trans men's front holes often have a clit more like a micro penis than anything resembling a cis girl's vagina. And you know what? Even if we're talking a trans man who cannot for whatever reason get T for the masculinizing effects yet (because hey, not all 15-18 year olds can get it, and some settings don't have the tech, etc), it's still gay sex.

Like this is so easily avoided if you're not into trans headcanons, you have basically the entirety of fandom to get your cis dick on cis dick cravings met, so why the fuck do you feel the need to act like a genre where a lot of young AFAB questioning people test the waters by writing fic, and where trans men write the kind of fics they want to see, and where allies do the same thing is just a bunch of "SJ approved homophobes"?

The only thing I see here is a bunch of SJ approved transphobes. :(

The existence of some people fetishizing trans men's bodies doesn't invalidate the genre as a whole, and the type of people you're proselytizing about are so small in number as to be insignificant.

[(Anonymous)]

Funny, most of the DEstiel shippes I know are gay/bisexual people who are into wanting fair media representation of gay/bisexual people... but of course they are "all crazy DEstiel shippers, only there for their fic".

OTOH, we've had people here with secrets about how THEIR transcanon are only about the fetish for trans bodies (I think the latest was like a month ago?) so... there is evidence that there are people who have this fetish and are not into nonbinary/trans politics.

So can we stop with the demonization of shippers? Yeah, some shippers -of all kinds- are in it for the fetish. Some others for the representation. Why not err in the side of caution and agree that more representation is GOOD?

[chardmonster]

Found the Destiel person. For the record I got Destiel confused with the incest ship.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not demonising anyone. I don't think having a fetish is bad. I just think it's silly to go "but it's representation" when you know full well that it's actually a fetish.
And quite honestly? Fetish porn that's actually potentially triggering to some trans people's dysphoria (words of a trans friend, not mine) isn't exactly a great type of "representation". Just call it what it is, it's not that hard.

[(Anonymous)]

i would say that fetishizing trans people like this is a little skeevier than just going wild for slash. like its obvious that a lot of writers just want to slap a vagina on a dude while ignoring that real trans people often will have terrible dysphoria about their genitals. it's not a "bonus hole" for most. i get that its fantasty and people can like what they like but its when people try to use them writing a trans character to get brownie points that things start getting unsettling

[ariakas]

1. It's once again the typical "the slimmer, slightly more effeminate of the two has to be the trans guy"

This is especially dumb because most of the transguys I know (over?)compensate by working out like crazy, and since they're on enough T to induce puberty - i.e. as much as men have during puberty, which is the peak they'll have for their whole lives - many get ridiculous gains.

(Which turn to fat the second they stop working out, just like cisguys, but that's lifebiology.)

Pre-op or not, with features that masculinized, it's unlikely trans!Hux isn't on hormone therapy.

Related: I once found a fic where Chris Redfield was the transguy amidst the vast sea of trans!Piers fics and it was way more true to my lived experience than just about anything else I've ever read of that genre lol

[sabotabby]

Good point, but this is a world where Padme died "of a broken heart" in childbirth like a Victorian heroine, despite the existence of advanced tech and robot obstetricians. Not saying it's still not dumb, but it's consistent with the dumb that's canon.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, in Padmé's case, you could probably make up some Force related stuff or something?

[(Anonymous)]

If you're willing to do that in Padme's case, how are you going to go and act like it's an insurmountable issue with trans!headcanons?

[(Anonymous)]

Because Padmé died in direct connection to Anakin's whole bullshit and that had a hell of a lot to do with the Force?
How would you connect a trans headcanon with the Force? (Especially in Hux's case who is probably not even a little Force sensitive.)

[sabotabby]

Sure, and people have developed excellent fan-theories. But those are fan-theories, not canon afaik. So if someone really wanted a 30-something trans dude who didn't have magic sci-fi surgery, there are worse canons to do it in.

[(Anonymous)]

Of course they can. I can still find it dumb though.

[(Anonymous)]

No amount of medicine and tech can help you, if you don't want to live.

[sabotabby]

Well, they could have had her killing herself if she really didn't want to live. But instead she died of a broken heart, which in my experience is kind of unusual even in non-sci-fi settings.

[(Anonymous)]

Dying from a broken heart is a phenomenon that actually exists in real life though.