fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3473 ]

If your kid is attacked/killed by an animal (I'm thinking the gorilla and alligator cases here) you are most likely a shitty, inattentive parent, and in general, there are a fuckton of people these days who should not be parents, but are.

Everywhere I've gone people are making excuses for shitty parents, and in my opinion, it's complete bullshit.

"Oh, but parenting is hard! You don't have kids, you don't understand! I only turned away for a second! Some kids are more rambunctious and it's easy to lose track of them!"

NO. I KNOW parenting is hard, and that's exactly why I don't have kids. When you have kids you CAN'T "turn away for a second". You just can't. NOTHING in your life is about you anymore. You have to devote 100% of yourself to your kids. If your kids are "more rambunctious" than others, there's a good chance it's because you haven't raised them properly, but either way, you account for that. You don't take them places where you know they could hurt themselves. Your kid has a tendency to run away from you? You don't take them to a zoo where they could fall into an animal enclosure, and if you do, you hold onto them the entire time you're next to that enclosure.

When you go grocery shopping, you don't let them run wild while you talk on your cellphone and ignore them. You pay attention to them, make sure they don't run into other shoppers or climb up display cases. You can gossip with your girlfriends later.

Yes, I know parenting is hard, but that's not an excuse for not doing it if you've already made the choice to have kids.

There is literally no fucking excuse for not paying attention and actually raising your kid properly. Honestly, the reason I don't much like kids? People won't fucking take the time to raise them properly and you end up with the little shitstains who do piggyback rides running through the middle of fucking walmart, kicking people in the fucking face along the way. You end up with the little shitstains who become the literal shitstains out the other end of an animal.
Honestly, parents have no one to blame but themselves if the kid turns out as a fucking shitstain.

ayrt

Honestly, the reason I don't much like kids? People won't fucking take the time to raise them properly and you end up with the little shitstains

That's the reason I don't like most kids as well. Most people that know me know me as someone who hates kids, but honestly, I don't hate ALL kids. I know some people who ARE good parents, whose kids know how to behave, and I don't mind those kids. But there are SO many who weren't raised properly.

I kind of agree with this. I always find it difficult when friends of mine with small kids complain that 'kids can't be kids these days' and 'they should be allowed to make noise and run around'. Sure, up to a point. But I always wonder how bad it must have gotten for some stranger to get annoyed enough to comment on it. I keep my mouth shut because like you I don't want kids because I think it sounds waaaaaay too hard. But if you do have them, then it is your job to look after them and make sure they behave.

As for these incidents with animals...I haven't read enough about them tbh. I think it's probably a combination of things. I mean, wtf is an alligator doing at a theme park?

ayrt

I don't want kids because I think it sounds waaaaaay too hard. But if you do have them, then it is your job to look after them and make sure they behave.

That's the thing. People are always saying I have no right to have an opinion because I don't have kids and I don't know how hard it is. No, I DO know how hard it is and that's why I'm choosing not to have them. I know that I'd have to give up any semblance of a life of my own until they were teenagers (or around there) and that's something I'm not willing to do. If someone wants kids, great, but they need to realize exactly what it entails before making that decision.

I think in the alligator incident, it's mostly that it's Flordia and there are alligators everyhere, and if there's a body of water, alligators are going to be attracted to it, and there's not a whole lot that can be done about it short of killing all the alligators in the area.

I always find it difficult when friends of mine with small kids complain that 'kids can't be kids these days' and 'they should be allowed to make noise and run around'.

Omg.

Okay, I'm about to get all ranty and I have a feeling I'm not gonna express myself well, I'm so sorry anon.

This sort of comment drives me up the wall, particularly since it usually either is a part of or dovetails into the argument, "boys aren't doing well in school today because we expect them to sit still and be quiet which is AGAINST THEIR NATURE!!! It didn't used to be that way!"

No! No, it did not used to be that way! If anything, boys (and children in general) were once held to much higher standards of conduct while in school, and it's so obvious that this line of thinking is based in panic over women doing well rather than in anything approaching reality.

BUT, more than that, and more to your point I think, a lot of people seem to lose sight of the fact that there isn't one single, uniform setting, but multiple settings, each governed by different sets of rules. Yes, kids need to be able to run around and play -- but in certain places, at certain times, not everywhere and all the time. There is a problem, in some areas, with opportunities to play becoming too restricted, but the answer to that isn't to declare that kids shouldn't ever be expected to behave.

And that makes me think about the people who throw a fit if another adult happens to correct their child, even if said correction is warranted, which is something else that grinds my gears, because I feel like it teaches your kid that rules can be broken and politeness can be dispensed with if they're apart from you.

...all of this is to say that, uh, I agree with you.

"Yes, kids need to be able to run around and play -- but in certain places, at certain times, not everywhere and all the time. There is a problem, in some areas, with opportunities to play becoming too restricted, but the answer to that isn't to declare that kids shouldn't ever be expected to behave."

I have a phobia of being touched, and one of my customers had a kid who liked to run up and hug people. She made a big deal of how she would never buy from us again because we weren't "child-friendly." I love child customers most of the time, but it's up to parents to exercise a little control over them.

it's up to parents to exercise a little control over them.

It absolutely is, but also...your experience is very distressing because it indicates that the parent isn't making any effort at all to teach her kid about boundaries. It should be taught early and often that it's not acceptable to touch people without their permission.

I mean, wtf is an alligator doing at a theme park?

It's Florida. They are everywhere. It's probably a bad idea to let your kid enter any body of freshwater in Florida unless it's a maintained and supervised swimming pool.

I always find it difficult when friends of mine with small kids complain that 'kids can't be kids these days' and 'they should be allowed to make noise and run around'

Slight nitpick. Kids DO need time to run around and make noise. However, the grocery store, restaurant, etc. is not that time. Kids need more recess and schools keep cutting down on that. They need to play in the yard. They also need to be taught to BEHAVE in places where that's not appropriate.

Edited 2016-07-08 15:29 (UTC)

I can't agree with this more. I spent years babysitting and being a camp counselor and I can tell you from experience that little kids need CONSTANT SUPERVISION. They don't have the judgment that adults do; just telling them that something is dangerous is meaningless when they're little because they don't understand what danger IS. It's not their fault and it's not because they're bad, it's because they're just being kids. They have zero impulse control until they get older.

ayrt

Yep. Years ago when my family was on vacation, my uncle actually jumped into a lake to save a two year old who'd fallen in because her parents weren't watching her closely enough. Their defense? "Well, we just looked away for a second, we were still right here!" They'd looked away from her for way more than a second, which we knew because we were watching her the whole time (my uncle sprinted towards her as she was falling and was able to catch her like 2 seconds after she fell in) but that's not even the point. Your two year old is standing next to a lake, you CAN'T look away for even a second (and personally, I feel like one of the parents should've been holding her the whole time, so she wouldn't have even had the opportunity to fall in).

Exactly. If a little kid sees something that interests them, they're going to run after it. Combine that with the fact that they have no concept of things like distance or speed (or even the fact that things like edges exist - when my little sister was two she ran right off the top of our porch steps and fell flat on her face because she didn't understand the idea of stairs just yet) and you have a disaster in the making.

I babysat my neighbor's twin boys from ages 2-9 and I could not take my eyes off them for even a moment when they were little. If we went to the park, I held their hands the entire way there, and I watched them every minute. If I had to go to the bathroom, I took them in with me and kept an eye on them underneath the stall door. These are things you HAVE to do with little kids.

Nah fuck off

I agree to some extent... parents should be as attentive as possible, and think about how kids behave and what they tend to physically get into before going somewhere, and plan accordingly.

But to be honest, condemning a parent for leaving a baby in a hot car, or looking away for a second while a toddler gets snatched by an animal... I think those are the types of things that are easy to condemn until it happens to you. It's always "I would never...!" or "That would NEVER happen because I..." Well, I bet a lot of the parents to whom it happens said and believed the same thing.

I don't have children, and never plan on having any. But I couldn't imagine the horror one feels in doing everything a parent is "supposed to do," and then having some freak accident or honest fuckup happen anyway. It's not an excuse, no. But I don't think the judging helps much when it happens, and the parents will have to live the rest of their lives with that scar, knowing they contributed in some way to the death of their kid.

ayrt

But to be honest, condemning a parent for leaving a baby in a hot car, or looking away for a second while a toddler gets snatched by an animal... I think those are the types of things that are easy to condemn until it happens to you.

Honestly, I think the leaving the baby in the car is actually far more egregious than the other example, because it's the parent directly causing the harm to the child, rather than being negligent and something happening from forces outside their control.

I'm not saying accidents or freak things don't happen or that the parents should always take the blame if they do, but I don't think leaving a baby in a car is one of those situations. That goes back to the "kids need constant supervision" thing. Just like you CAN'T look away for "just one second" you don't have the luxury of just "forgetting" that your kid is in the car with you if you have kids.

If you're not ready to put 100% of your focus and attention on your kids and essentially give up on the notion of "free time" or a life of your own until they're old enough to not require your constant supervision, then you shouldn't have them. I'm not willing to do those things, which is why I'm not going to have them.

If you're not ready to put 100% of your focus and attention on your kids and essentially give up on the notion of "free time" or a life of your own until they're old enough to not require your constant supervision, then you shouldn't have them.

That's not realistic though. At a bare minimum, parents need to be able to work, cook, and otherwise take care of the household, all of which involve spending time not paying attention to the the kid. Additionally, parents who completely sublimate their senses of self usually don't make very good parents, for a number of reasons: they neglect their marriages, which makes them more likely to divorce; they become mentally and emotionally unhealthy; and they give their children the impression that the world revolves around them. Kids who notice that their parents don't have lives or interests outside of them have a tendency to be very self-involved, and really, why wouldn't they be?

This is all further complicated by the fact that kids need to be taught how to be responsible and to take care of themselves, and that process begins very early. That doesn't mean letting your kids run wild, but it does mean providing them with controlled opportunities to be "away" from you.

ayrt

You make good points, and I should've worded things differently. I was thinking mostly when you're out in public, and when the parent in question is the only one taking care of the kids at that time. In your own home, you've had the opportunity to make things as safe as you can, and I don't feel like you need to have eyes on your kids every second.

And of course parents need their own lives and interests, there's nothing wrong with leaving the kids with your partner/spouse if you have one, or a trusted babysitter, and going out with friends to get away from time to time. And you're right that kids need time away from their parents to develop and grow.

But while you're the sole caregiver for the kid(s) and you're in some public place, you can't just say "oh, they're driving me nuts, I need a break" and go on Facebook on your phone and not pay attention to them and then when one gets kidnapped say "OMG I only looked away for a second, how could this have happened?!"

Ah okay, I see what you're getting at, and yeah, I do definitely agree in that case. Mistakes happen, but when you're out and about with a small child, they really do have to be the center of your attention.

So...I agree and I disagree.

Being a parent is a huge responsibility, and there are people who don't take it seriously enough and who are lax in their care. However, there are also otherwise devoted and attentive parents who have bad days and wind up slipping up. Humans are incapable of perfection, and that means that even good parents can make a fatal mistake.

There are cases where you can kinda tell which it is, but a lot of times, it's hard to be sure. Take the whole "leaving kid in the car" thing. Many instances of that are partially attributable to an automatic cognitive process that shuts down conscious thought (it's referred to as "highway hypnosis"). There are tricks you can do to keep it from happening, but, I mean, fuck, that's scary (and, oddly enough, people get judged for using said tricks. "You shouldn't have to do that! You should just remember that your kid is in the car! You must be a bad parent!" Really? They're bad parents for doing everything they can to make sure that they don't leave their kid in the car? K).

I don't know, man. It's a tough thing. On the one hand, yeah, you really can't let your kid out of your sight for a second. On the other hand, no matter how hard a person tries, they can't do everything right 100% of the time.

So, you think every parent needs to hovering around their children a lot, and you're childfree because you don't want to put that effort.

Your opinion belongs in the dustbin.

No, your parenting skills do.

When they're very young? You absolutely do, or you need to put them in a crib or a playpen where they can't get into anything if you can't be watching them. It's not an exaggeration that it can take a kid a matter of seconds to get themselves into serious trouble.

I agree. In most of these cases, it's the parent's fault (with the Gorilla incident, it was a tiny bit the zoo's fault for not having a proper fence.) If you know your kid is rambunctious and gets into trouble and/or runs away from you, put a leash on them, or keep them in the stroller.

In grocery stores, you don't know how many times I want to grab parents by their necks and scream at them to watch their damn kids. Like last week for instance. There was a couple kids doing a fucking gymnastics routine in front of my case. The mother looked right at them, ignored them, and proceeded to putz around the store. No, you dumbass, stop your kids! There's a glass case on one side of them, and a stack of cans on the other side. If they run into wither one of them, they WILL get hurt.

I don't know what the hell happened with parents now a days, but they seem to be getting worse and worse with every kid they have.

[ SECRET POST #3473 ]

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