fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3651 ]

[ SECRET POST #3651 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3651 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

"Racism is simply an ugly form of collectivism, the mindset that views humans strictly as members of groups rather than individuals. Racists believe that all individuals who share superficial physical characteristics are alike: as collectivists, racists think only in terms of groups. By encouraging Americans to adopt a group mentality, the advocates of so-called "diversity" actually perpetuate racism. Their obsession with racial group identity is inherently racist."

Oh, thank goodness we're not lumping anyone into a single group here.

I think this point of view is extremely stupid for much the same reason that anarcho-capitalists who reduce everything they disagree with to ~~~STATISM~~~ are stupid

also, it sounds like this is possibly coming from the actual same kind of person, so

If you want an actual counter-argument, it's that political and social life exists in the context of the identities that we've created. You can't make that go away. It is an intrinsic part of political-social existence. Advocates of diversity are not encouraging Americans to adopt group mentalities. Those mentalities are already there. And it's more harmful to pretend they don't exist because of the demonstrable ways in which they have affected our history, our structures, our existence, and our present.

It's also not a very nuanced understanding of racism as an ideology

Diversity is good. Diversity is what makes people bump into people who are not like them and realize that they can't lump all other individuals into groups because so few of them fit all the stereotypes they hold.

Tokenism and token diversity is well-intentioned racism called something nicer that only appreciates individuals as representative members of a group.

The thing you quote puts no distinction between the two and sounds like someone with no grasp of nuance regarding race and racism.

Love this comment.

I can see this point, except that people are awfully quick to label something "token", and it often seems to me that their argument is that media needs to exceed their own arbitrary definition of "token" or not bother at all... and I kind of suspect that not bothering at all is what they actually want, not diversity.

AYRT

As one of "~them" that would prefer no representation to bad, embarrassing, and stereotype-reinforcing representation, it's true for me at least. Yes, I would rather have no representation that have the only person of my race on a show be a collection of stereotypes. Yes, I would rather have a show be blatantly all-white than to have the one black character in NYC speak "street" and be an ex-con. Yes, I would rather have a show be blatantly all white than have the one Chinese girl in SF be exotic and flirty with a heavy accent?! You make it sound like it's a bad thing.

If a show is going to be like that, they can stop bothering to pretend, for all I care.

If a show is going to try, they can do better than that.

I thought tokenism was when one individual of a marginalized group was included so that the creators can say "look at me, I'm diverse!" - not necessarily the same problem as racist stereotyping in writing (though there's overlap to be sure).

It's both.

When there's only one character but they're fully explored and not a caricature i.e. not included solely so that the creators can say "look at me, I'm diverse!" and they play a significant part in the plot or story or development, you can't call them a token. They're simply a character to happens to be (race).

Right, I'm not trying to say any character of a given race is a token - just if the main or only reason they were included is for diversity points.

And whatever you call it, I think we can all agree it's annoying as fuck.

Token to me personally means a character who is solely identified by whatever makes them 'other'.

For example, if you have a black character who is defined by how 'ghetto' or 'street' they are, that's pretty damn racist and tokenism. Like they just went, "Well we need a black person, how do they act? Make them all about that." rather than defining the character and then deciding to make them black.

Like, in Stephen King's Cell (the movie, though the character is ambiguously gay in the novel), Tom McCourt is gay. And the only reason you know he is, is because he briefly mentions that he has no one to check on because his man left him.

That's it. No stereotypical femme-gay acting, nothing else, just a throwaway line that identifies his sexuality but doesn't make the character a 'gay character' but rather a character who happens to be gay.

Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. Maybe race would go away if we all stopped believing in it, but when you stop believing that other people behave in racist ways towards you, that doesn't make their racism go away. It simply makes it harder to recognize and react to the ways in which they're being racist.

Good evening, Ayn.

That's not what "collectivism" means.

did white nationalist twitter leak into FS for this particular steaming pile of "wisdom?"

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #3651 ]

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