fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3774 ]

[ SECRET POST #3774 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3774 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

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You're kind of touching on a complex issue here, like there's definitely racism in fandom and part of that comes into shipping and even into slash pairs.

And while yes, it's kind of uncool to harass an individual for liking what they like... why is it that they *do* like that white pairing? Is it because there are more white faces in entertainment? And they are seen as more desirable? Is it because *we all* take in those racist messages that we are sent on a daily basis?

Like I will grant you that fighting prejudices that are so deeply instilled in people is hard, we all have them, no matter how "woke" we think we are. But what is the answer if people are not allowed to openly criticize how much more popular white pairings are? Is shutting down the conversation for the best?

I'd say the answer is promoting non-white pairings. Make huge efforts to push them and show how much they have to offer. Do pairing weeks, do fic exchanges, do art contests, put out meta, commission things. Focus on building up instead of tearing others down.

The number one thing I see souring people on pairings is if they're negative towards other pairing fans.

NAYRT

I am like... 90% confident that doing this will not have any effect

I am also like 95% confident that negativity doesn't actually sour people towards other pairings and people who say that are mostly justifying ships they'd be into anywawy.

There's a lot of pairings that I don't ship, but the only pairings I actively hate are the ones with a vocal asshole fanbase. How a fandom presents itself does make a difference in how their ship is perceived, at least to me.

Maybe. All I'm saying is that I don't think it affects what people actually ship very much.

Every single NOTP I have is because I saw fans harassing others. Most of these are actually whiteships too. And pretty much people tracked big harassment blowups in Star Wars fandom compared to how many new fics were being added to Ao3 and discovered a big fandom attack against another pairing resulted in a serious dip in the number of new fics being added and could even signal a downward trend.

I am also like 95% confident that negativity doesn't actually sour people towards other pairings and people who say that are mostly justifying ships they'd be into anywawy.

Negatory, good buddy. There are ships I know I'd be into (or was into) that I've been absolutely soured on because of the asshole "SHIP THIS OR YOU'RE RACIST" fanbase. Stormpilot's a good example, actually. I loved that, until the assholes ruined it for me.

*raises hand* That was FinnRey for me. Half the tag was anti-Reylo shit. It can be hard to be a multishipper in the sequel trilogy fandom.

But Reylo is shitty and incesty.

No and no. And wtf does that have to do with FinnRey? Nothing.

(no subject)

otakugal15 - 2017-05-06 01:09 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2017-05-06 01:28 (UTC) - Expand

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otakugal15 - 2017-05-06 21:43 (UTC) - Expand

+1000

This was multiple MCU ships for me.

I think those are good suggestions. But I also think there are fans out there already making those efforts and they only go so far.

I can see how negativity can sour people, but at the same time, I don't know that I agree that fandom should never be critical. That's part of what fandom does, it observes, it critiques. And while I would never support harassing individual fans I do think people have a right to complain if they are frustrated.

Yeah, but if all the fans who were currently being negative jerks and bullying others shifted over to the promotion side, what would happen? You'd remove the backslide effect where people start hating the ship because of the vocal assholes and you'd have so many more people working towards that goal.

Seriously, as a writer I will tell you I generally only write for rarepair events because the rest of the time I'm lucky to get a kudo or two and forget about comments. But there are rarepair ships I will write for even though I'm not super-invested in the pairing because I know the fans leave multi paragraph comments, put it on rec lists, come back and tell me they've reread it. So these fans, which is for a POC ship by the by, get more so much more content than other ships because they have a dedicated cheerleader base. They are small, but they really love their fandom makers and I've never seen them shit on another ship, ever.

Being critical is one thing, but sometimes you have to remember. WhY dO tHe GiRlZ lIEk ShIpPiNg????1?!?! has been something fans have dealt with from well meaning internet think pieces for 40 years now. Why aren't girls just happy to consume the media and then go on their way? What inspires them to take it beyond that? Why did most men watch Star Trek and then go on, but many women sat down at their typewriters and typed up What If and mailed it to all their friends? And there's been hundreds of theories, and because fans are kinda racist is just one more. And it's just as likely to get eyerolled and rejected along with the people speculating that maybe Freud was onto something about the whole longing for a penis thing, no matter how true it may be.

You're assuming people who are critical don't promote though, people can do both of those things at the same time.

I just don't know that I agree that people are wrong for bringing up the subject or that it deserves an eyeroll, no matter how long and how often these things have been brought up, there's always someone new it can reach. And yes, racism is a problem and fandom doesn't get to act like it's the exception to society in that.

Probably because there's still a much larger number of white characters out there to choose from than there are POC characters, so it's easier for people to find white pairings with the dynamics that they like? I mean, unless you're into Asian fandoms, if you pick any given canon, chances are it will have more white characters than POC ones. Which sucks and shouldn't be such a universal constant, but right now, that's the way things are.

Usually, when people talk about this, they're pointing at fandoms with major black characters who don't get shipped

I do think it's getting better than it used to be, though, most of the examples I can think of are from like a decade ago

I dunno about how much it's improving. I just got way into Grimm and discovered people shipped Nick with Monroe (who's in a stable, sweetheart relationship with Rosalee) for like 5 seasons rather than his detective partner, Hank, with whom he had awesome chemistry. Nick is white, Hank is African-American. Monroe is white. And needless to say, Hank is way cuter than Monroe, although I guess mileage may vary.

Now admittedly the show is heavily het in ship pairings, but I found exactly 5 Hank/Nick stories on AO3. There are 643 Nick/Monroe works and 400 Nick/Sean (his boss, another white guy!) works. Heck there are an equal number of Nick/Dean Winchester crossover stories as Nick/Hank stories. It's just depressing.

The show just ended this year.

When I was in Grimm I shipped NickMonroe because they had a LOT of chemistry to me, and also because for at least the first season (I gave up around mid second season), they also share Nick's big secret.

That said, I also super liked Rosalee and MonroeRosalee and I loved Hank (and Sergeant Wu) I just found Nick had different chemistry with Hank than he did with Monroe, and maybe that changed in the later seasons, but I never got that far.

The dynamic is different though. Nick and Hank are partners who have a long-established friendship when we meet them. On the other hand, we see Nick and Monroe meet in the pilot and watch their relationship develop over time. Prior to meeting Nick, Monroe is a hermit and Nick brings him out of his shell. That kind of thing is catnip to shippers.

That said, I don't ship either pairing. I find it impossible to ship Nick with anyone, and I love Monroe and Rosealie. Are there any Hank/Wu stories? I always thought those two characters had potential together.

As someone who was in the Grimm fandom since the early days, Nick and Hank didn't have some proper interaction in the first two seasons aside from the basic quips to show off their friendship. Nick and Monroe had plenty of Moments, and went from antagonists to close friendship, hence why they were so popular even though Monroe and Rosalee were super adorable in later seasons. The popularity of Nick and Monroe died down a lot in the later seasons when they stopped interacting. First season they were two guys against the world, third season onwards they were just two friends in a group of friends.

Definitely think there should have been more Nick/Hank though. And Nick/Wu. And Wu/Hank. (I shipped pretty much everyone on this show, except for the one that became freaking canon)

Nick went from one committed relationship to another. Monroe didn't seem like the kind of guy to get between a couple, and then he met Rosalie. Renard was morally grey and semi involved with Adelaide. Putting Wu and Hank together was a bit Pairing the Spares.

I never saw much shipping potential in Grimm.

It's weird what fandoms will ship and won't ship though. I mean I came out of Frozen shipping Elsa and Kristoff.

Anna/Elsa (Disney) (928)
Anna/Kristoff (Disney) (777)
Elsa (Disney)/Jack Frost (Guardians of Childhood) (318)
Elsa/Hans (Disney) (195)
Anna/Hans (Disney) (185)
Eugene Fitzherbert | Flynn Rider/Rapunzel (111)
Elsa/Kristoff (Disney) (3)

Elsa/Kristoff has a grand total of THREE in which it's mentioned but not a main pairing. Neither of them are POC. The fandom obviously doesn't mind het. It is a mystery!

Yeah, there have been times when I've watched something and come out of it going "I bet fandom is all about X/Y" and then gone to look for fic and it turned out that the juggernaut pairing was something completely different from what I had been expecting. You really can't predict which ships people are going to latch onto and for what reasons.

Elsa/Jack Frost always confounded the shit out of me.

This is true but I do think there's a lot of racism that is in fandom that not everyone wants to confront.

Like there are a few pairings I thought FOR SURE would be popular because they hit all the slash popular pairing buttons, but then I come to find out that they aren't because the pairing has a black man in it and the most popular pairing in fandom is two white men.

I've seen this happen a few times so it feels hard to only blame Hollywood with it's lack of diversity, fandom itself can be a problem as well.

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