[ SECRET POST #3819 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3819 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 40 secrets from Secret Submission Post #547.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

02. http://i.imgur.com/yiVcLD5.png

[(Anonymous)]

Sometimes I think it works. Paranatural does it cool, I think.

On the other hand, I really get it. I'm Jewish, and there are shows that seem to introduce a character that's Jewish just to have a throw away "don't celebrate Christmas" thing and never seem to go into nuances of the religion or culture. It's fucking annoying. There's many things that change, even small things.

[(Anonymous)]

This might be an obvious point, but - I don't think that you need to go into depth on the religious beliefs of every character who wears a cross.

[(Anonymous)]

I've never seen a male Muslim character or a female Muslim character who wears a head covering that is not a hijab. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[(Anonymous)]

The hijab is a tool used to subjugate women

[(Anonymous)]

Far less so than a bikini.

Also, you're wrong. Ask some Muslim women instead of getting your theories from bigots.

[(Anonymous)]

DA
I know several muslim women who actually say that them not being allowed to drive in their home country is actually a great and nice thing for women, because they don't "need" to drive. So you'll excuse me if I don't exactly take their word for what is and isn't oppressive to women.

[(Anonymous)]

They don't speak for me or anyone else. I'd rather have the freedom to drive.

[(Anonymous)]

How is a bikini oppressive? Many muslim countries force women to wear a hijab under threat of beatings. When my life is literally on the line over a bikini, I'll get back to you.

Lots of women who grew up in Muslim households resent having to cover up so much. One person's culture can be another person's oppression. No different than the bullshit in other Abrahamic religions. Islam doesn't get a free pass because muslims get lots of hate crimes. One can hate a religion and cultural traditions without hating the people.

I think people conflate being arabic with being muslim, making "islamophobia" out to be a race thing when it's really that the religion is dogshit and leads to a ton of oppression in africa and the middle east. Pretty much every country that is ruled by strict adherence to Islamic law have terrible human rights ratings.

[(Anonymous)]

How is a bikini oppressive? Many muslim countries force women to wear a hijab under threat of beatings. When my life is literally on the line over a bikini, I'll get back to you.

But surely that's an argument against those policies in those countries. I don't see where that goes to the idea that the hijab is bad and verboten in all contexts whatsoever.

Lots of women who grew up in Muslim households resent having to cover up so much. One person's culture can be another person's oppression.

I agree, but that doesn't mean that it ALWAYS is.

Islam doesn't get a free pass because muslims get lots of hate crimes. One can hate a religion and cultural traditions without hating the people.

It's straightforwardly against the basic principles of Western liberalism to hate a religion as such. Hate the cultural institutions by which that religion is practiced all you want, but that's a tremendously important distinction to maintain.

I mean, you know, there are plenty of people out there who hate the Roman Catholics or the Mormons. I disagree with them, but no one's stopping them from doing so. But the point I want to make is that we stopped trying to outlaw the practice of Roman Catholicism or Mormonism long ago, and I think we would think of it as obviously wrong if someone were to try to do so. Now, you can look at specific practices within those religions - Mormonism is a good example, in that things like bigamy aren't permissible in the United States. But Mormonism is. And yes, that's a US example, but I think the general principles there are broadly correct generally.

I think people conflate being arabic with being muslim, making "islamophobia" out to be a race thing when it's really that the religion is dogshit and leads to a ton of oppression in africa and the middle east. Pretty much every country that is ruled by strict adherence to Islamic law have terrible human rights ratings.

First of all, that's a terrible thing to use as evidence, because there are just sooooooo many cofounders. I'm not even arguing against the conclusion. It's just really bad evidence and argumentation.

Second, I agree that actually existing Islam is wildly problematic in my parts of the world. I think the problem is, again, where you translate that into a general critique of Islam as a religion, shorn from cultural or social or historical or economic context. I don't think that's how religion or any other social institution actually works.

[(Anonymous)]

All of this. Criticising religious beliefs is not the same as racism.

[(Anonymous)]

Where are the countries where women are forced to wear a bikini every time they go outside and those who don't are stoned to death?

[(Anonymous)]

That's a fucking stupid argument. The bikini has no religious significance. Women aren't pressured to wear bikinis over onesies.

[(Anonymous)]

A lot of things are used in a lot of ways.

[(Anonymous)]

Being FORCED to wear one is subjugation. But CHOOSING to wear one is liberation. Those are the same outfit but very, VERY different backgrounds.

[(Anonymous)]

I have a hard time believing Knight's Errant does anything well but then again, I'm biased because I dropped it way back in the day (I hear it got rebooted or something? Eh, don't care enough to check).

[(Anonymous)]

I've been following it since before the reboot - I liked it from the beginning, so my opinion probably doesn't matter to you, but I think the reboot made it even better. And I feel like it treats the different characters' religions (there's analogues to Islam, Judaism and Christianity all featured) very well.

(I do have a kneejerk reaction to people saying Knights Errant is terrible, because 90% of the criticism of it that I see is "The main character turned out to be a WOMAN and I was BAITED with promises of GAY MEN", which ignores both the large number of gay/bi men and M/M relationships in the cast, and also the fact that the main character is not a woman anyway, he's a trans man. And part of the reason the creator chose to reboot the comic is because of how incredibly transphobic people got in the comments about this.)

[(Anonymous)]

It was less the fact that it went that route and more the way the creator behaved about it that made most people react that way. She made a huge song and dance about how great and funny it was that she "tricked" people, dumb idiot yaoi fangirls that they are, and when people got kind of annoyed at this, she started to present it as this huge transphobia thing.
That and I'd been following her on LiveJournal for a while before the webcomic was officially started and the LJ it was locked and she kept referring to her trans main character as a "fierce lady" etc. so I really found her "holier than thou" behaviour incredibly hypocritical.

[ketita]

Agreed. It annoys me because it's so obviously "diversity shorthand", like pop a hijab randomly on one of your characters and bam, diversity.
I guess I also notice it because Judaism never gets that sort of shorthand, because we don't have such an easy visual cue. Instead we get the "oh, I don't celebrate Christmas" one-liner that inevitably pops up, and that's it.

Part of it is, imo, that true diversity is actually really damn hard to write. I was briefly working on an idea that had an extremely diverse cast of characters (22 main characters, each one from a different country, and like 6 from Southeast Asia alone), and damn, it was daunting.
I see why people would want to take the shorthand that allows them to display diversity visually and then just get on with it. Even if it kind of sucks.

[(Anonymous)]

I'd love to see media deal with details about different religi Na and cultures that are rarely represented. But at the same time, having a very diverse cast and going in-depth with each of their cultures/religions would be very daunting and likely overwhelm the plot. I hope to see more media in general that handles representation well (for example, one work may feature Judaism and Latino heritage, another may deal with Indonesian and Islam, etc) Like we shouldn't try to get our diversity quota in just by shoving it all in one work, that does justice to no one.

[(Anonymous)]

Sometimes they randomly wear a yarmulke everywhere

[ketita]

Yeah. I mean the problem with that, of course, is that you never see any other elements of life that they would struggle with... like taking holidays off, or things being on the Sabbath, or never eating at events (and having their colleagues/friends be awkward or worried about him, or showing up like LOOK I FOUND A KOSHER THING FOR YOU :DDD, etc)

If it's a procedural or something with minimal characterization across the board that's one thing, I guess, but otherwise it's kind of annoying.

[(Anonymous)]

On the one hand, I do like seeing visual diversity like that and there are some comics that don't exactly have a story line and are just humor-based observations. On the other hand, if it's a comic with a developed cast of characters and the characters that are religious or ethnic minorities are the only ones without character development, I start to side-eye it just a little bit.

[(Anonymous)]

A lot of diversity in media is just lip service.

[(Anonymous)]

Mr. Robot does this somewhat better than most shows, I think.The Muslim character's religion doesn't play a major role, but she's shown praying, and if I recall correctly, her family's religious background plays a role in her plot-related motivations. She's also just a cool character whose role develops nicely over time.